Amobi Okugo: Helping Athletes Make, Manage, and Multiply Money (Full Transcript)
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Ronen Ainbinder
Today's episode features an absolutely ELECTRIC human being.
Today, I'm snacking with a professional soccer player, a founder, and a member of the Forbes 30 under 30 lists.
He's a first-generation immigrant from Nigeria who's been a professional soccer player since 2010 — drafted after his freshman year at UCLA.
He's the founder of A Frugal Athlete — a company that helps professional and amateur athletes to make better financial decisions.
He also launched a wonderful foundation — ok U Go. They help children from low-income backgrounds to find their talents and passions to build a better future for themselves, their families, and their communities.
It is an honor and a pleasure to host him in the Halftime Snacks;
Ladies and gentlemen, the ELECTRIC – Amobi Okugo!
Amobi Okugo
Oh, that probably is the top two intros I've ever received.
Ronen Ainbinder
What's number one?
Amobi Okugo
Probably when I first made it pro, and they announced my name. that was amazing. You have a career in commentating for sure.
Ronen Ainbinder
Nice. That's amazing. Amobi. So welcome to the Halftime Snacks. I hope that these Halftime Snacks would be better than the Super Bowls because, man, I hated that show. I understand that's the popular opinion. So I hope this one's better. I'm sure this one's going to be better. But thank you so much for joining the Halftime Snacks, Amobi! Thank you for your time. I want to ask you about your story and your background, and your story as a first-generation immigrant from Nigeria. So your parents are from Nigeria, you're born and raised in California. And I'm very intrigued about that. I'm very curious about Nigerian culture. I don't know it. So I would love to hear about some characteristics of the Nigerian culture that you carry throughout your life and personality. Tell us about it?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, so I was a first-generation Nigerian American. So both my parents moved to the States and had my siblings and me; being of Nigerian descent is everything. We have strong family values. So we're big on a family; we have family gatherings, family parties, everything is within a unit. So it's not individualistic; we do things for the family. So we have strong family values. We have a strong culture, whether it's the food, the customs, different things that we try to keep from a cultural standpoint, and then be a Nigerian, especially in the States. I think a lot of people recognize us for our hard work and how we value education. I've hopefully tried to do a good job of carrying that into my career and life—some of the qualities that Nigerians have.
Ronen Ainbinder
That's awesome, Amobi. I'm a big Chelsea fan, and
Amobi Okugo
Oh, yeah. Me too!
Ronen Ainbinder
Oh, you also a Chelsea fan? Oh, that's great. Yeah. That's great. So we just see if we can still have this Halftime snack conversation. We don't need to hang up. I'm just kidding. But I'm a big fan of John Obi Mikel, and I saw him live one time. It was amazing. He's a great player. And I'm sure that since you're also a Chelsea fan, you also admire John Obi. Do you have any other players or some other personalities from Nigeria, which you admire? You look up to?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah. So growing up, I looked up to Kanu Sunday. Elise. JJ Koecher, obviously, so those are like the three guys I liked. Especially Sunday. Elise because he played center made if you guys remember his goal for Spain in 98, what a golazo. And then obviously, in the new generation, John Obi Mikel was one of the guys that we followed just for all the things that he's done with his career and just being a good example, as a professional athlete and a Nigerian ambassador.
Ronen Ainbinder
Man, I'm very curious — since you are a professional soccer player. I'm very curious. What goes into the mind of a professional soccer player, especially when they're, they're growing, and they realize that They have this talent in a specific sport. In your case, it's in soccer. So how do you realize that something's going on here? You're a kid, you're playing against other kids, and you're dominating the game, or you get called by new coaches every time or how, how exactly does it work when you realize that you have this talent and that you're about to become pro or that this is going to be your life?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, it's interesting. When I first started playing soccer at the youth stage, it was more to stay active, build relationships, and stay out of trouble. And then, as I showcase myself, when I started playing at a higher level, people were reaching out to my parents about your son's probably going to go pro. And my parents were just like, is you're going to use sports to get an education, hopefully, get a scholarship. Then, as I kept climbing up the ranks, it was getting more and more like, real, ok, this is a possibility, this is going to possibly happen. But you always like, hold off, like, it's not going to happen. Yeah, it's not going to happen yet. And then, bam, it happens. So everything kind of happened so fast. And luckily, because of my experience at the youth level playing at a high level playing for youth national teams, I was a little bit prepared for what was to come next?
Ronen Ainbinder
That's awesome. Would you be willing? Or would you be able to play for the Nigerian National Team, or does it not apply to you?
Amobi Okugo
So for me, if I wanted to play for the Nigerian National Team, I would have had, I would have had to follow a one time switch because I play for the youth national teams for the USA, all the way from you, 14 to you, at you 23 with the Olympic squad. And then if I were to hopefully pursue the Nigerian Federation, and in the past, earlier on my career, there was a possibility, I would have had to file a one time switch. Nothing ever came of it. So I'm still eligible for the US national team. Even though that's probably a far cry from a possibility, there's still a possibility you never know.
Ronen Ainbinder
I trust in your talent. I trust you and in your personality. So I hope you get there. And one day, we'll see you on Mexican national TV playing in the World Cup.
Amobi Okugo
I'm not sure about that. But you never know. Crazier things have happened. You never know my met.
Ronen Ainbinder
I want to switch over to talk about your foundation because I found it super fascinating and incredible things that you're doing with it. So I just like to ask you specifically the story behind ok U GO; how did it start? How did you realize there's this need or this pain? And how come you chose to focus on that pain? Tell us about it.
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, so for me, it was a play off my last name; my last name is Okugo. And if you break it down, ok-u-go. So I wanted to do something with that. As an athlete, as a player for the various things that I played on, I was always doing some volunteer work within the community. But I always wanted to do more. So with that came the foundation, and just started, ok, you go foundation and provide resources for children, that aren't always getting these resources. I was fortunate enough to have two parents who sacrificed a lot to go to practice and go to private school. But not everyone's so fortunate. So how can I use my time and my leverage, so to say, to provide an opportunity for others that may not be so fortunate?
Ronen Ainbinder
I guess that not all professional athletes leverage their platforms to support communities to support society? Why would you say that? Is this is the case? Why are not all the athletes involved the way you are? What do you think there's there to solve? In the professional sports between athletes? What do you think? Is there a mindset shift? Is there a focus, because I also wonder that maybe most of the athletes are very busy training and preparing themselves and focusing on their game, and then they say they don't have time. But then comes you. Then comes Amobi, who does have the time to support communities and create a foundation, and we're going to talk a lot about your company as well. But you multitask. Why do you think this is not the case for all, if not most, of the athletes in professional sports?
Amobi Okugo
I would say it's just a mindset shift. When athletes first come into the league, a lot of athletes want to focus solely on soccer. They want to be able to perform, and I think that's, that's very important as an athlete, to stay an athlete you have to make sure you're performing other guys have they have families to take care of, so they don't have the time or the where of where at all. But I think in most cases, when it comes to athletes not trying to leverage their platform for the community or themselves, simply because they don't think of themselves outside of an athlete and as an athlete, you're a business person. How you perform in the field affects how you carry yourself out. The field affects you, how you recover how you eat. All these things affect you, and like just like any business, all these moving parts play a role in your performance and your ability to succeed. I think it has to happen on its own, and you can't force an athlete to think like that. But luckily, we're seeing more and more athletes use their platform, use their leverage, use their performance to figure out ways to make changes.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, I think that's one of the fascinating things of the last, probably four years after, after we saw Colin Kaepernick. He stood for what he believed in the NFL even if, even if it was against, kind of like the rules, I feel like, after him, we start to see more athletes kind of take a stand for what they believe participating more in foundations and being more active in society. And I think that that's great. And I respect a lot of what you're doing, and we think it's fantastic. And I also want to understand how you make it with being a professional player, having a foundation, and running a frugal athlete? I mean, it's crazy. How do you have time, man?
Amobi Okugo
To be honest, I do not have the time. I wish there are more hours in a day. But for me, my Google calendar is a lifesaver. Calendly is the software I use to make sure I'm scheduling and then time blocking. So I'm not trying to do everything in one day. For example, every Friday or every other Friday is when we do our foundation work, we do mentorship to kids at-risk programs, we'll do clinics and stuff like that, for Frugal Athlete we strategically plan our days ahead. And then obviously, soccer is an everyday thing. But I'm not doing everything at once; it's more time blocking and giving priority to certain things. With a certain task,
Ronen Ainbinder
I can already see that you have perfect time management skills. I want to switch over now to talk about the Frugal Athlete. The company you have and that you support athletes by basically teaching them how to manage their finances. I want to know if there are any specific and unique activities that you guys do one or two activities that you guys do that you think they're important when it comes to educating athletes in their financials and managing their monies.
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, so with the Frugal Athlete, our mission is to help athletes manage and multiply their money through financial education and athlete empowerment. Like two offerings that we provide outside of the courses that we do, we do financial coaching. So we're not advising athletes. I just want to make that clear when we're helping them change their behavior around finances. We can help them with budget templates saving trackers, figuring out which app is best to use in managing their money, if they want to cut some subscriptions or create an investment strategy, things like that. And then revenue generation. Obviously, you make money as an athlete, but what does it look like to make money using your status as an athlete? So what does it look like to create an affiliate marketing campaign? What does it look like to create a pitch deck? So you are now reaching out to brands, and they're more willing to sponsor you? What does it look like to create a podcast or a YouTube channel, all these different avenues that athletes aren't taking advantage of, that we helpfully help athletes provide?
Ronen Ainbinder
That's fantastic because you realize that most athletes don't understand how money works or how to manage their finances. As you mentioned, their platforms leverage their popularity and their exposure given by the sports where they play. So I guess it's an awesome point of opportunity that you saw and that you are working to fill the gap between these athletes' lack of knowledge. I wonder how those standardization work in a frugal athlete in terms of the levels between someone who knows nothing about money and someone who maybe invests already and knows more about assets and other types of advanced investment strategies. So I want to know, how do you assess each level? Or how do you manage this idea that not everyone might have the same idea surrounding money?
Amobi Okugo
No, that's a great question. That's a great point. I think, for me, it's all about trying to figure out who we talked to on an individual basis. So my conversation would say, and this is all hypothetical, LeBron, LeBron James, he's not going to talk to me in terms of figuring out his finances. He's at a different level. But a rookie that is just getting into the league that may not know about the money, that's where we can come in and help them from a conversational standpoint and figure out things that they may need in terms of answers. And we're there to provide solutions. So it's kind of all ties into like that. Athletes, what they're looking for different things, whether it's a big-time athlete or athlete on the lower end, is all about that specific athlete. And going from there, it's important to stay in your lane as an athlete so I can't compete with some guys on my team, and some guys can't compete with me on my team as well. But understanding what strategy works for you and then sticking to it. At the end of the day, you're going to win your own race.
Ronen Ainbinder
LeBron James, if you're listening to this, man, you need to get Amobi to manage your finances.
Amobi Okugo
We don't manage finances, but we do help them manage their own decisions. But I did do an internship with uninterrupted, and that's LeBron James, his company. And it was a great time, and I was able to learn a lot. And we're connected in more ways than one, just not on an official basis yet.
Ronen Ainbinder
That's amazing. Amobi. I want to ask you now since you've seen and worked with so many athletes, and you've understood kind of like the need points or the pain points when it comes to managing money, and the psychology behind it. So I want to know if there are any myths, or are there any kind of misconceptions that athletes and people realize or have about money that you've seen, and you find fascinating because you don't understand why they believe in it or why they think that way? So are there any ideas, myths, myths, misconceptions that you can tell us about?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, one of the biggest misconceptions is that athletes are the only ones with money problems. And that's, that's not the case, we're just in the spotlight because everyone could see us on a day to day basis. And our stories are the ones that will get more clicks. But there are lawyers, doctors, engineers, teachers. Everyone has money problems in the sense of not understanding financial terminology and going from there. So I think that's one big misconception that athletes are the only ones making unfortunate financial decisions. Another one is that not I don't want to say not everyone needs a financial advisor, but there are different levels to having a financial advisor. So if you're like coming in, it's important to understand the financial basics first. If you're a basketball player, you're not going to go out and start shooting threes, and you have to master the layups and the free throws and the mid-range first, and then you shoot the threes. If you're a quarterback, you're not just throwing Hail Marys. You're working on first downs and running the ball a little bit little things like that; then you can shoot for the stars. So I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that making money the boring way is not attainable. But if you think long term and have a strategy compound interest proper saving proper investing, you can be very successful. So, those are two conceptions that I just wanted to point out. And I think a lot of people just put by the wayside.
Ronen Ainbinder
Those are great misconceptions. I agree with you, 100%. And I would add another one. And I would say that another misconception about money is that people don't understand risk, and low risk a lot go hand in hand. I read this book that tells the story about Bill Gates, who went to one of the country's only high schools with the newest computer. It was one of the only high school, so he spent a lot of time interacting with the computer, understanding that computer; he and he had another partner, I don't remember his name. And so, in a sense, he was lucky because he was at this epic sec point in time, and at the exact location, to be able to acquire this knowledge to then translate it into Microsoft, in alternatively, there's the story of this other guy who was also his friend. He would be a founder of Microsoft, but he died in an accident a few days before the first round. So I guess that that's the risk that people don't understand. And this the lochside about money, we're talking now about building a company, right. I think it also applies that in finance and how people should understand that if there's a financial crisis, or if there's luck involved with an investment, you bought Bitcoin before right before Tesla said that they're going to invest 1.5 billion, so you were lucky, right? Because you've been had this information. So I guess that misconception is that we need to understand risk and lock as equals, and we need to understand them more because they're present in most of the outcomes. What do you think about that?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, I think some of it has to go into like with timing and stuff like that you can't time the market, but if you are smart about your finances and invest properly, you give yourself a better chance of getting lucky. So the person that was smart or proactive and investing in Bitcoin give themselves a better chance to be lucky, while at the same time that it could have gone the other way. So like you said, it's, there's risk management to every investment that you make. And it's just got to; you have to gauge how much you're willing to risk. So depending on some people bet their whole life savings into bitcoin, or a certain stock or a certain fund, some people made out and did well, some people lost. And that's up to their risk management. I'm not that risk-averse; I'm more risk-averse; I like to be conservative in the sense of how I allocate my investments. But some people are more, they're more aggressive, and they're willing to, like, take their bets and maybe get lucky or maybe be in the market long enough to time it right. But it's all up to that individual person.
Ronen Ainbinder
Absolutely. Absolutely. Amobi. I love that answer. And appreciate you sharing with us a couple of the misconceptions that you see around money. And since we're running out of time, I want to ask you a more personal question. And that is because I know you're an incredible person, an incredible human being; you've done so much for society, communities, the foundation. Your companies also have an amazing purpose that is to empower and help athletes. And I mean, you're an all-around person, I'm sure that's why you were included in the 30 under 30 list, Forbes, which is also great. So I want to know if there's any message that you could share with the listeners, and of course, the world. Just to put it in a question, if you had, if you had a billboard, which would be seen by millions of people every, every single day, probably the most popular Avenue anywhere in the world that you'd like so what would your message be? What do you want people to know? And why?
Amobi Okugo
Yeah, that's great, and I would say a quote, or like saying, or phrase that I'll leave people with is "all you can do is all you can do, and all you can do is enough." Often, people will half-heartedly go into something because they're kind of scared of the results. Some people will wait till the perfect moment, some people will not stay disciplined, because they're worried about what other people think. If you have an idea, if you have like an inclination of something that may work, give it your all; if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But more often than not, it will work out. And it may not work out the way you want it, but it will lead you to something else that will eventually work out. So like, that's kind of the approach I've been taking as I've gone on in my journeys like if I have an idea, I find a way to get it done. If it doesn't work out, it's let it lead me to the next project. But more often than not, it works out. And because I'm able to take the lessons away from it, the ROI is always positive, whether you make money from it or not. And I think that mindset has helped me, and it's allowed me to do many cool things. And it's allowed me to learn from a lot of different things as well. Not everything's a win, but not everything's a loss, more of a lesson. So all you can do is all you can do, and all you can do is enough. And I think if people have that mindset, a lot of positivity will come from it.
Ronen Ainbinder
What a legend, man, what a legend, Amobi. Thank you so much for coming to the Halftime Snacks. You're such an inspiration. Thank you for devoting a piece of your attention, knowledge, and insights to my listeners and me. And yeah, man, I hope that frugal athletes continue to grow and your foundation continues to grow. Because of your development as an athlete, I hope you make the World Cup one day, and we can see you up. Thank you so much for coming.