Christoph Sonnen: Catching Waves in Sports, Business, and Life (Full Transcript)

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Ronen Ainbinder 0:29

Today's guest of the Halftime Snacks is the most extraordinary guest we've EVER hosted in the show.

Let me tell you guys why:

This man is a legendary businessman. Not only he lives in the Bahamas, but he's a venture capital expert with a passion for startups, sports, and technology.

Our guest was one of the first employees at RedBull in 1998, and that was literally his last job.

In the last twenty years, he has founded, managed, and sold several businesses, investments, and accelerator projects.‍

Together with the Adi Dassler Family, our guest co-founded leAD Sports, a global powerhouse for sports tech entrepreneurship and investments.

leAD is an entity that sources, funds, and grows early-stage sports & health tech startups globally.

I can't wait to learn from him, so without further ado:

Ladies and gentlemen: Christoph Sonnen!

Christoph Sonnen 1:41

Thank you. Thanks for the words. Happy to be here; as we just discussed a minute ago will be preferable in Mexico City with you. Well, we changed a lot. So thanks for the warm welcome,

Ronen Ainbinder 1:53

Man. It's my pleasure. So jealous that you're in the Bahamas. I wish that I would be there with you. But so too bad to have to make a deal in zoom. The next one's gonna be in the Bahamas or in Mexico City. First of all, welcome to the Halftime Snacks. It's a pleasure to have you here. I'm so excited to share with you episode number 52, meaning the first anniversary of this show. So I'm super excited that this show features one of the greatest and most influential icons in the sports industry, such as yourself, Christoph. It's my pleasure, my honor, to have you here. And I want to kick our conversation off with a super quick icebreaker. And I want to ask you what is one Fun fact that not so many people know about you?

Christoph Sonnen 2:47

Oh, so first of all, happy birthday! I think like most people think because I always like smiling. I'm always like a happy person. And maybe people think because they like it if everybody's friendly. If I'm friendly to everybody and smiling all day long, as people seem, I probably take things a bit lighter. And I would say it's the opposite. But it's good. But that gives me the time to think and digest because some of them say, Okay, he's like, more on the lighter side. On the happier side and not too deep thinking. It's the opposite. But I prefer that to be in the church. And I think that's the one thing probably people would not think of right away when they meet me. Certainly, friends and long-term business partners know that, but like, not when you meet me for the first time.

Ronen Ainbinder 3:44

That's great, man. That's I think that's an awesome icebreaker—a great way to kick off the show. And man, I'm so excited because we're going to talk about so many things related to you, to your background or your story to sports tech startups and in early-stage investments and everything that you've been doing with lead. But what about we start off with some interesting facts about you that I love because you are from South Africa originally and that you were big? Well, you are a big wave surfer. So I want to just start with that. And I want to ask you what is special for you about big wave surfing? And in what ways has it shaped your mindset in business, life in leAD, and everything that you do?

Christoph Sonnen 4:30

Hey, thanks, rich question. And let me try to answer it. It's like surfing was first right because I started as a kid, as you mentioned. Before I did any business or thinking about life as you asked me, I was just surfing right. So let's start with the fact that surfing brought me around the world. It was not just Africa. I went to many, many amazing places around the world. I met great people. And it was at that place which is amazing. People, I realized, like surfing, have a special and unique culture. And I think we're gonna emphasize this a little bit more later to the surfing. It was not just about people and places in their own culture. But if you think about it, surfing is much about time. So think about if you have away if you're going out on the ocean, it's somewhat of an even larger effort to swim out in the ocean, right. And now you have to catch your wave. And for those trying to make it easy, you can imagine it's like hardcore swimming, at least in the New World ocean deep sea. And now you want to catch your wave, right? So now, it's, first of all, if you catch a too small wave it's pointless because you're swimming in an ocean and you have a little, little tiny wave. It's no fun to do it and cannot even push you forward. Right? Okay, so choose your battle if you take a too big wave, right? You might get injured, you might get hurt, it may be too much. So you want to like at the right time finding the right size of the week. And also, like when you approach somebody, if so, you pick your way, if you're approaching your wife, again, it's about the timing, you may be too slow, the wave gonna run to you, that's not a good experience, to be honest. Or you'll be too early, which is even worse. Because of your journey, this whole wave is going to crush you. So it's for me, it's all about timing and surfing and people, places culture. And that was before I thought about business and life. And I've seen that way, when I grew up and started my own business, in thinking about life, what you do when you get a little bit older. I think I was blessed to have what I call the secret sauce of people, places, culture, and the right timing, learning from surfing for business and my life. And when you think about business, especially with startups, right startups, when the winning founders start their companies, right? Often it's shocking to me; they start thinking tactically. Let me explain that. To answer your question.

Usually, like a company is looking, they want to attract investments when they want to grow. They have everything done, right, right, like crushing the numbers provided a business plan; it's all solid and has a compelling story. But yet, there's no guarantee these components will ever deliver success. Still, they're saying in a technical way they have delivered. So back to the secret sauce, an additional ingredient, which is for me the most important and hard to capture on a spreadsheet, requires the entrepreneur to almost tune into something else. It is about people, places, culture, and the right timing for your business. And I think that I have got for them. It's all about time.

Ronen Ainbinder 8:02

I love it. I love it. Can you remember the first time or the moment you were first introduced to the business and technology side of sports? Maybe it was somehow related to Red Bull, but I want to hear it from you and hear the story. And I want to know exactly the moment that that happened? How did it align with your personal values and your identity? Or have you been a sports fan all your life? And all of a sudden, you were introduced to it? And you were like, of course, I want to be part of it? Or was it something different? I'm just curious, just to know how you were introduced to it? And then and how did it align to you and who you were?

Christoph Sonnen 8:41

Wow. Yeah, we have to go back a couple of decades. And it was a long, long, long time ago. Not sure exactly a year we have to look at probably applying that. But it's definitely like the early 90s. I was just reading both, as you mentioned. And obviously, like in the 90s, most people won't remember it. But Red Bull was strong in only extreme sports. So at that time, would you sponsor an indie team, for example, wouldn't be in soccer, wouldn't be like anywhere, would be just basically in whatever the definition of extreme sport was in the 90s. So that was what we did. And in that regard, we looked at the radar guns, like how you measure speed to the cars and whatever. We wanted to use it for our extreme sports. So basically measuring speed now, the audience is gonna say, well, that's like, that's an easy thing. What not in the 90s, right. In the early 90s, there were no measurements of radar guns in sports, right? So I was super excited about it because we saw skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, like how we can measure speed and all of that for our extreme sports, so I heard that IBM has a new technology? Is it surf speed technology for tennis? So I went to the limit and found out. And was it the early 90s? The year later in there basically had the first time at the whim of the finer raider speed, surf speed technology. So they could be able for the first time to measure how fast the surf of the places. And guess who wasn't a final. It was Michael. Today from Germany. He was a challenger. And Boris Becker, who was the champion, right? And they were hammering the ball. And you could see how fast the surface now is for all of us. But that was the first breakthrough moment, right? Michael, Michael won, which was shocking for all of us, even though both Germans and that was basically this IBM surf speed technology. And at that moment, I realized, like, Hey, this is going to change, like how it's going to change fan engagement, it's going to change like the viewership, it's going to change the podcasting. Because all of a sudden, like, I'm not looking like getting MC right, left, right, left, and suddenly, I get like one data information, which I personally liked. And then I wondered, hey, what's the heart rate of this guy's, what's the pulse, like, what other things are there? Which, like, affects the game? But there was again, I must be like, the early 90s.

Ronen Ainbinder 11:26

Was this the moment where you realized that this was going to be something huge?

Christoph Sonnen 11:31

I think I didn't realize it's huge. It just cost me a personal interest, like, and then we had, like, No, we wanted to use it in extreme sports. And I realized this is like for the viewership. But I didn't think about monetization or anything because I was with Red Bull; we couldn't care less; we just want to support the extreme sport. But there was like, as the first breakthrough moment, I would say.

Ronen Ainbinder 11:56

I want to touch on what we mentioned a little bit on riding waves, the timing, and the importance of how to detect and ride them. Let's transfer this term wave to something that also happens in business. And of course, in personal life, there are trends, and problems that come along, such as waves in the ocean. So I want to know if you can decide if you can just describe how you think or the mental model you have for detecting writing and solving waves in your life or in business? Or how do you like what's, what's your strategy to figure out what's coming? And how to, like, set yourself, position yourself in a way that you are going to be riding that wave at the exact moment in the perfect timing?

Christoph Sonnen 12:52

Yep, happy to do; I think it comes back to the secret sauce, right? And let's, let's emphasize this a little bit deeper. So this was a full point. The four ingredients are people, places, culture, and timing. Let's go one by one. The most important thing is the people. So who's your team? Who are your teammates? Like, who are you competing with? I, you're going to be the challenger, you're not going to be the champion. Otherwise, nobody would listen. I think like everybody here, like the audience, they all like to get challenges. They want to create something, and they're not like the market leader. So far, right? We want to change that. So it's all about what people you have in your core team. Always get the best people like this, for sure. Great. But also like what people you're working with, right? It's not just like your own team, your own like teammates. Like, who are even your clients, as the pick, pick the best people to work with. I think it's important that people say that all the time. But if you put it in the context of places and culture, it's a little bit more straight. So if you're surrounded by the right people, and it may be your family, it may be your best friends, it may be like new people, it doesn't matter. If you empower these people, together with you, you're going to be at a great place, no matter what. Because like if you have great people, and you listen to you great people, you're going to be at the perfect places. If you are at the right place. And with the right people, it's easy to create a culture. It's going to be automatic, like you're going to have a good company culture, a good personal culture, with the right people at the right place. And that together is your entrepreneurship. That together is how you build success for whatever vision you have. Now it comes back to surfing. Now, don't be too early. That's bad because there are many, many examples in business life. And companies where people are too early. And also like, don't be too late. Right? It's like if you're too late if you wait too long. It was your decision to say horrible too, and then the wave just gonna run over you. And I think that if you think about Red Bull, it is a perfect example of perfect timing. Sometimes it's, by the way, just lacking right, so let's stop because nobody had time to think, oh, what is the right decade to launch Red Bull was the right place? The right culture was the right people. But if you would launch a chemical drink today, say that, right? Maybe like not the healthiest, they would fail, right? If you launched it in the 70s, it would fail, right? So the 90s were extreme sports. It was all the things around in the spirit of the time, and Zeitgeist was exactly the right moment to launch it. And maybe they were just lucky, I think, but it does matter. For us entrepreneurs, it's important to understand when is the right time. And also, it's like, when is the right time to power on my success? When is the right time to wait? Sometimes it's good to wait, wait, you have something you want to discuss with a business partner with your team. Also, find the right time. It's not just like, Oh, I have it on my to-do list today. Maybe the hours are not ready, or maybe you're already a little bit late, and you forget about it's all about timing.

Ronen Ainbinder 16:12

The coronavirus pandemic has challenged a little bit in terms of the people you surround yourself with and the place where you are because now you can connect with anywhere in the world. Anyone anywhere in the world. And you can also be in many places at the same time like we are right now we can connect, you're in the Bahamas, I'm in Mexico City, we're able to have a conversation. And but we're going to talk about that later. I want to talk specifically about one of the things you mentioned, which is the type of people you surround yourself with.

And given that you've been, you've listened to 1000s of presentations of startups in sports. And you've seen so many founders come and go, you've seen some that have been successful, you've seen some that you thought were going to be successful and failed. You've seen some that failed. And probably you also saw some that you thought were going to fail, but they ended up being successful. So I want to touch on that. I want to dig a little bit deeper into the traits that you look for in startup founders that make you want to get involved in whatever it is that they're doing. What are the things that you need to see to be convinced that you want to get involved and work with them in one way or another?

Christoph Sonnen 17:36

Yep, um, I think, firstly, it's important to have a vision and articulate in the strongest way possible. So what is your vision, and how can you articulate it? So some people have a strong vision, but they call the articulation that's already scary, right? Some are articulating it well, but the vision is not good. So I think having a strong vision and articulating it, it's important. Number two, to that point, is basically like you need to lead. So okay, however, you need to have a great vision, you need to be able to articulate it, and you need to show that it can lead your vision. And again, some founders have a strong vision, and they can articulate it, but they cannot leave it. So that's already like a glass of water. Then next is like passion. For me, it's super, super, super important to have passion. It's not about like, Hey, what happened in the next five years? 10 years is the business plan. Like, we talked about secret sauce versus like technologies. But if you have that, if you have a vision, you can articulate it, you can lead it, and you're passionate about it. That's, that's perfect, right? Because then all also, you're going to hire the right people. As we mentioned before, I think it's like many businesses, even like in COVID times, especially in COVID terms. So you have to have that strong, strong passion. And like to be able to, to entertain and excite people, right? If you can't do that, it does matter. And if you can do that, it doesn't matter how big your vision is, because like I got to believe you have, you're gonna have a bigger vision next year. Right? It's like because you're excited, you're on the right track, you have a vision, you can need it. And you're passionate about it, and people are gonna follow you. That's, that's what it is. And sometimes, like when we write business plans and go to all the exit sheets, come from universities, people forget about that, right? And then lastly, it's a bit dry one, but hey, you have to be able to fundraise and never ever run out of money. And there's a lot of founders, they're like, I my co-founders dealing was it like no, I hire like somebody and like a business finder or somebody. No, no, no, no, it's new because only one person As our team has a strong vision, can articulate it, it can lead it has an amazing passion to other people follow because of this, and then you are the person who needs to do the fundraising and make sure like being responsible and never run out of money.

Ronen Ainbinder 20:17

That's very, very interesting. Christoph, I think that the last one is just a trade of sales; know how to sell, if you believe in your idea, and you can lead it, then why can you sell it right? Is it like, yes, you should be able to fundraise unless that's a bad idea. But then, that would be a conversation for another time.

Christoph Sonnen 20:40

Yeah. But even then, you find people that tell you, Hey, you know what? It's a nonprofit; I still support you on a nonprofit basis. Because I like you. I like working with you. I like you. What are you doing? I don't think it's ever gonna make money, but it's still gonna help you.

Ronen Ainbinder 20:55

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um, I want to talk about leaving the company and the accelerator, the entity that you currently run. It's a big organization, you have offices, we were speaking about this before our call, you have offices in Jerusalem, we have offices in Tokyo, in Orlando, in Berlin. So it's very global; the lead has a global presence. And you as the CEO, as the leader, as the co-founder, I want to know, what is your mindset in terms of growing to leave? What strategic decisions drive most of the growth in this global expansion that you're driving with leave? I want to, I want you to think about like the Pareto principle, the 8020, the 20 things, 20% of the things drive 80% of the outcome. So I want to ask you if you can tell us the 20% of the strategic element that drives 80% of the growth? And what is whatever it is that you're thinking about strategically?

Christoph Sonnen 22:03

Wow. So we are going to the science of success? Let's do it. And so what do you say is there's a period of principle, it's basically like 20% causes, and 80 creates 80% effect. That's, that's what everybody is, it's like once. And I think, again, you have to have people, places, culture, and the right timing, and a big chunk of luck is always good to have. So if you ask me, what are the two most strategic decisions or importance for lead sports and health tech partners? First, we have to see two components. Number one is where you invest in because we're investors, right? And that's our business. And who are you investing with, to where the money is basically coming from? Is it your own money, like, and then where's the source of it? So two things like founders you want to invest in, and then your organization like investing into these companies. So number one, we created the true global ecosystem and sports in the house. What I mean by that is, when we went out six years ago with a family from Adidas, LA, we traveled the world. And we thought we were going to be a nonprofit. Back to my point before, we didn't have a business plan. We truly thought, okay, it was my sports background. And even more important was the sports background of the family from the grandchildren from the data. We realized six years ago that sports are definitely disruptive to technology, and it's now, so we're six years old. So we went out and met. We traveled for almost a year to all countries globally, almost all countries, and it didn't matter how large the organization or smaller startups was, it didn't matter. We met literally like everybody who was out there. And we had great discussions with them with great like good meetings, and we realized this young person 19 to the oldest was probably 23 they're gonna change the sports industry. It's not the sports industry itself was not the Federation's that's boring six years ago, right? It's not the Olympic Committee; it's boring. FIFA? No, no, no, no, no. It was this startup. In the next 10 years, we realized they're going to change the whole game, so to say, Now, we were like Non-Non, we thought we'd do something nonprofit, we just want to help them. So we came in for some sort of nice, and we understood that they all needed help. They need help from the Federation's, and it helps to, to do to the context we had, right, I was like, Hey, we give you this conference. We called right away people who made connections, and we created strong friendships. We didn't solve our investing because we didn't see ourselves at that moment. Six years ago, as investors, we connected the dots. Now, the startups he came to us and say, but we also need money. I hope you can help me. And then, we created the whole lead spots in-house tech partners. So, and we never like you to talk to any many other organizations that they're taking money from startups, okay, they're providing a service. And in some form, if you look at it in-depth, they're basically like selling the motivation or like directly asking for fees. We never did that. It's, it's for us, it's like, anybody can call him and say, like, Hey, I have an idea. I haven't tried to help the company, not if we're invested or not investors, it doesn't matter. It's just like this, this is your own sport as an athlete, you want to do that? Why do you want to have challenges that are all sport? And having said that, we created our own true global ecosystem. And then how we did that was 20% cause, like when we went out, we will be true, like, we stay in contact with all these people, and companies. And the effect is amazing because it gives us the biggest deal flow ever. I compete with anybody out there; I'm gonna say this is 1000s of 1000s of companies we are in contact with, and we have the opportunity to invest. So the effect is 80% or even more in two years before the principal. Now, we have that amazing deal flow, unheard of before and again, every day, happy to be challenged as part of the sports too. And being an athlete. The next one is how we invest in most of them in the best ones and pick them. And when we went out, we realized sports is young, and it's global. It's much more global, right? So in America, Americans have tendencies to invest in American companies. The French have tendencies to invest in French rights; that's what is a little bit off is a legal aspect to it. But for us, it was global. It was young because we met all the people around the world. And we realized that we were young and then the beginning. So the Adidas family and I were singing, can we cover the whole world? Is everybody calling us now from different time zones? And they say, Hey, can you come by in India, in Korea, in Argentina, in the US, in Berlin, and Jerusalem? We can't do that. Kind of like, we can come back on a roadshow for a year and meet you in four months. But we can't like to be there daily, right?

And we realized we need partners, less for love, also for money. Because we realized investments, ticket sales are going to be larger and larger and larger. But mainly to be there to have a presence in all those countries. So our goal was filing a shareholder group, which we call the club here, where everybody's like, equal rights and go into the club deal and be there for the startups in their country. So having a shareholder in Brazil has a shareholder in Jerusalem has a shareholder in Japan. And they're basically like, becoming like part of us being an active investor, yes, investing, but also like taking care of the regional, regional companies. And again, by doing that, it's kind of like a snowball effect. The first we had like six, now we have like about 25. In this 25, members of the club, or shareholders, they're basically all actively investing; they're trusting the other 24 because they're owning the same club called leAD, right. And they all want to support the startups. And again, by doing that snowball effect, 20% like causes and 80 80% effect.

Ronen Ainbinder 28:46

That's great, Christopher. And I know that you have a specific passion for early-stage and seed investment types. I wonder if there's any reason for this, that you prefer investing when they're early when they're premature? And when they're about to grow? Is there something that excites you or interests you more than investing in companies that are probably more developed? Or is this just something a choice that you made, and you just forgot about it?

Christoph Sonnen 29:17

I think it's a big passion. So if you don't mind investing in the later stage, companies where I don't mind, and financially may sometimes be like, better or equally good. I'm still like any guy, and I explained why but like, let's go to the latest stage, the latest stage that made all the mistakes in the world survived, then all the bad teams that survived the wrong culture that survived. There were the wrong places. They changed all the heads, the wrong timing that changed the pivot, pivot, pivot. Now I meet them, and they do everything right. And yes, you can write a check, but he can't get only My opinion anymore. That's it, right? Because the champions, right? That, oh, we want to do an IPO, right? My company is worth, like, four or 500 million. And yes, it can be doubled next year, especially at the moment right now, and you can have a great financial return. That's amazing. But there is no, there's no other help than writing a check. Okay, back to the early-stage company; they're about to make every mistake possible. In any guide, it's, it's, it's almost like, if you have had that experience, you want to give back. And you want to help, again from the fight, this is a completely different story, and investing in a later stage. So you have to go through all the pain, and it's way more effort than just writing a check. So it's like, being an active investor, put a lot of sweat equity into it, and how was your team? All the startups?

Ronen Ainbinder 30:59

Yeah, even though it has probably a little more risk involved in the investment, it also has the opportunity to get involved in any way that you can, either by helping or advising or by providing whatever you can. And so that's that, that's probably one of the things that I can also relate to the catching a wave thing that you mentioned at the beginning. Right, that it's, it's your opportunity to catch a wave with them. So that's probably why I mean, in terms of what you're doing, and your words, express that interest of providing more of a help than a, just interested for the return. If I'm right,

Christoph Sonnen 31:42

Yeah, perfect. And that's exactly what you are saying? It's like, it's innovation, right? Suppose I'm like a company, like eight years old, and now we're going public. In that case, that's exciting financially, but everything is done. And in this future, there is like they can do other things. But they're not building innovation. They're not building like what they already had done, right? So if you look at companies at an early stage, you sometimes like, wow, I'm not sure if the world needs and let's think about it, right? And I don't have the answer right, I don't, but like this is a challenge is a world going in that direction and needs that product or that service in five years from now, in fact, to the spirit of the time. And there we can help. And that's my personal interest is, how are we moving forward, especially after the pandemic, and what people care in what direction this type of spirit of the time is going and then excited about meeting these companies. They have the answer. And the solution for in five years or in 10 years, where a later stage company solves today's problems. And after the last five years, but maybe not of the next 10 Yeah, that's

Ronen Ainbinder 32:55

an interesting way of thinking about it. Christoph, thank you for your answer. I want to roll back, circle back to the COVID pandemic, the very famous one; I'm sure that everyone here listening knows about this. We were even speaking about it before the episode. Since the pandemic started, you moved to the Bahamas because it was easier. You can do it online. You can be there at any time and connect with anywhere in the world. And we connect this also with the other side of, of place that you mentioned in people as two important things to be there writing waves and trends. Now through the pandemic, you can meet people from all over the world, and you can hear the pitch of startups from all over the world. You don't need to be in the country. Right? So I want to know my question for you, Chris of his I want to know in what ways did the COVID pandemic changed your mind about teamwork, about people about places about innovation, and about the way that you thought it was the proper way to execute life and that you change their mind because of the COVID pandemic? Just share with us your thoughts around that?

Christoph Sonnen 34:14

Yeah, attitude. I think, first of all, like, what would be a positive changer is that early-stage innovation gets way more attention? Right. So our early-stage startups or early-stage innovation get more attention than ever because people all of a sudden have the interest to dive into it like apps they're maybe not ready for, like at-home gym apps, for example, which just takes more work on the app. They usually wouldn't have been not even close to the number of subscribers. Still, now people are like, oh, I've subscribed already to the peloton, but like, what's in there for yoga? What's in there for mindfulness? Yes, this is calm, but like the other guys are more specific to my needs. Yeah, maybe just Started is just a $1 per month subscription thing. I got to try it out because as interest is like innovation, I see I have the time, right. And in that whole thing, the whole pandemic helped early-stage innovation a lot because they got the audience. All right, they didn't have an audience before. So I think for early-stage companies innovation, especially in sports and health tech, the whole COVID accelerated positively. And by people, by consumers and society thinking more about like, Oh, I lost two years, how can live longer longevity, how I can live in that's maybe stressful times better, like how it can be more mindful with my family, and how I can live healthier, I just was right in our sweet spots on the innovation in our startups, like highly like benefit from and in a team is like, in the team has like many aspects, right? It's like teaming. Like, also like, how it's just our team. It's also like how you meet new people. And I think, I agree, let's be in COVID, it's easier and faster and more fun to meet more people, right? People you never met, right? Like, it's like you said in the beginning like maybe it would be more complicated and non-COVID times to meet that fast, right. But that's easy now. And I think that's exciting. Because a lot of startup words are about meeting new people, having new friendships, having new business relationships, and seeing what's out there. And creating something right. On the team side, I think it comes to feminine if someone is lonely, somebody, it may be harder because he used to like we just met, it's exciting. It's fun right now, like, we used to have like a 10 years business relationship. We like to have our meetings every Monday and this and this and this, and all of a sudden, that's gone. I think it was a big, big challenge for many organizations; for startups like us, not so much. Because we don't have this 50 years history like others where we have every Monday meeting and every Wednesday. It's a walkabout. But it's definitely like for every organization; it was a challenge for the startups. And so for us, it was definitely positive because they realize, like, wow, we can't like to do what we did yesterday, we all have to, like behave differently. We all have to like, work extra hard, I would say, for the team. So it is kind of like in soccer, you're suddenly like somebody gets a red car, the two players get in the red car. And now you have to play the next 88 minutes with a small team, and it's gonna be harder. Still, you could go you're gonna figure it out, but there was no book to it how to do it, and I'm happy and proud that our team came out stronger than ever. And so do our startups because it's our responsibility.

Ronen Ainbinder 38:03

Is there any specific trend that you like, in sports that are or health that you're super excited about? That you want to just drop a nugget here and say this is going to be the future for everyone listening? Go invest in that thing. Is there? Is there just one trend that you love?

Christoph Sonnen 38:23

Like we are coming from like fan engagement is so big, but it's in with technology, it changed fantasy, sports, betting, in-game betting, and all the news you're seeing right now. We're all super excited to go back to the stadium and consume more than like sports. This is a massive Margiela. I'm super excited about that. But to answer your question, I see the shift in our society and the Zeitgeist; if you think higher, it's like, people do want to live longer. Now, they do want to live healthier, and they do want to live better. And if you think that through sports and health technology, it's all about longevity, mindfulness, and training, like how I can be like, can be an athlete at work, right? Like, I want to be like, I want to be fitter than ever. And I see whatever startups are empowering this whatever the best solution is, especially in a mindful fullness way and longevity. I think this is definitely a big job.

Ronen Ainbinder 39:27

Man. Time has gone so fast in this Halftime Snack. I'm enjoying so much listening to all your insights and all your lessons, and man, I don't want it to end. Sadly, this is just the Halftime Snack. So it's supposed to be something that people can consume during halftime, so we gotta let them go to the second half of the game. But right before we go, Christoph, I want to ask you one last and more personal question, and that is to get to know a little bit more of your period, your vision, and you as a leader. So let's, let's say let's put this scenario, let's say that I would give you a big billboard that it's going to be placed somewhere, anywhere that you want, that will be seen by millions of people every single day. And that that's going to inspire millions of people every single day. I wonder if there's any phrase or any specific quote or any words that you would put there to inspire more people and get them to do something that you believe in? Is there anything that you would put there?

Christoph Sonnen 38:23

I think it would be like, psychosis, fair enough time and just kind of put it out there that people think about this type as is defined by timing, and by the name of it, it's a spirit of the time, so what I see in people who if they read it, they're gonna see boys today as of yesterday it was insightful yes but what is the spirit of highly limited. When you define the spirit of time inside guys, you're not quick to come to the ingredients, people, places, culture, and put it on a billboard too, if people sing every day about it as they get better their condition for their own business and as humans.

Ronen Ainbinder

It's an awesome way to close this episode, Christopher. Thank you so much for coming to the Halftime Snacks, taking the time; it's been a long time coming; it took a few months to get a call with you, but I'm so happy that we were able to do it. And we were able to sit down and talk about your story, background, leave strategy, growth, development trends, and everything that we'll touch on. I am very excited to share with everyone that this was the first year of Halftime Snacks. I can't wait to have you on this show again in the future to talk more about sports and technology, man. But for now, thank you so much for coming to halftime tonight.