Sanjit Atwal: A Masterclass on Sports Marketing (Full Transcript)

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Ronen Ainbinder 0:31

Joining us for a quick Halftime Snack is an award-winning innovator whose background is packed with experiences in technology, sports, and marketing.

This man is the former co-founder of Squawka – one of the world's fastest-growing digital media & entertainment businesses in football – which he sold for over 1 million Euros a few years ago.

Currently, he runs Halfspace – a marketing agency with clients in sports and entertainment that delivers engagement, growth, and monetization to their clients through innovative strategies and creative content.

Today's episode will be jammed with lessons in sports marketing, entrepreneurship, content, and more.

Without further ado, ladies and gents, Sanjit Atwal!

Sanjit Atwal

Nice to be here, thank you very much for inviting me.

Ronen Ainbinder

We're celebrating your kid's birthday today. So let's have a blast of an episode. Man, I want to kick it off with an icebreaker. And I want to ask you, who's your favorite historical figure?

Sanjit Atwal 1:34

I'm into polymaths. Right? I'm into guys. And girls who know a lot of different things and specialize in a lot of different things. And so, you go back, and you look at people like Isaac Newton, right, like, literally a master of many different disciplines. And it never was anything like that before Da Vinci was a polymath, as well. Not many people in the sports world know that my degree at university was in film and television. So that was like my first proper career. And the great thing about learning about directors in film losers, the top ones are polymaths, as well. Look at David Lynch, who makes some amazing movies, brilliant artists, as well, and into his music as well. These are the kinds of people I like.

Ronen Ainbinder 2:21

That's nice. I like those. I like those historical figures, man, an absolute polymer that you are, indeed we're going to be talking about so many of you of the things you've been into men's contents, quacker, advertising industry, everything you've built for the last 10 years. So let's kick it off with a question that I've been having in my mind for a long time. And that is also because I'm a creator of content. I publish the newsletter every week, and I also publish podcast episodes. So I always wonder what's more important for a content creator? Is it the quality of the content? Or distribution? What are your thoughts about that?

Sanjit Atwal 2:57

I think it's changed a lot over the years. Right now, where we are in human history is the easiest it has ever been to get reach and distribution. Like it's never been easier. You've got five euros; you can go get distribution, right off of Facebook, or Twitter, or wherever you want to go. You can hit up somebody else's channel and get them to come to you out, you can go meet someone, or they put you in a newsletter or whatever. Human beings didn't have that before. So when everybody can get rich, is distribution that important? Yes, it is obviously important to do it. But that's the easy part. The hard part is the quality of the company. Now the hard part is building something that a certain demographic is engaged in, they get it, and they live it. Everybody in sports is in the content business. Not many people will know they're in the content business. They think there may be something else, but ultimately it is about the content and the quality of production, and what you're building. And you have to understand why it's quality as well. And that's kind of, I think, the cusp where many great YouTubers have great tik-tok creators, Instagram, they know why their content is good, and they can hone it. I guess the next little stage of sport is trying to figure out we're getting under the skin of the content and figuring out what works and what doesn't. And because the distribution is all there, right? People still want the content to distribute across linear and Ott and all these other channels.

Ronen Ainbinder 4:29

So was that the way you guys started Squawka, like trying to get a step ahead and the quality of the content and putting it out just as everyone else is doing and seeing what was sticking and what was not and then repeating what was sticking or what was the initial strategy for you guys when you started that company?

Sanjit Atwal 4:48

Yeah, good question. I started that business in 2011. With a friend of mine, Leo. We were both big football fans, and we were looking around The Football ecosystem online. And look, there's a ton of places you could go for like content in football, right? There must be a million places, at least. But the angle that wasn't looked at 10 years ago was statistics. And real-time statistics info. Here, we're at halftime on Sky Sports or on the BBC. You might have a few statistics halfway through a match, but nothing meaningful. We decided that the way that we would get into the concept business was through technology, we would license a load of raw data, we build technology to visualize that data in real-time, and then build a content business around it so starts to explain the world's biggest game in a way that never been explained before. I saw a fascinating post just before the end of last year. It talked about the 10 biggest innovations in football in the world over the last 10 years, or they've been the biggest things. There was var, of course, there was like the way that medical technology works. Now people can get better and better and quicker. And all this kind of stuff. Out of all of the 10, statistics was not one of which I was amazed by, but then I was also kind of happy by it because it meant that we've done such a good job, like driving statistics into the game, that it was now just a common thing. It's everywhere now. And the only way we figured out how the content was going to work was to create a load of it, right? Create loads of nodes, and you get it out there with a good concept, like smart guys. And you start to figure out, okay, well, this kind of content works best for this subset of fans at this time of the day. And then over a while, if as long as you're building a team correctly. And they're nuanced enough to be able to feedback from what's happening in society, what's happening on a website, newsletters, podcasts, videos, all this kind of stuff, and build out a real good knowledge of what works and what works doesn't. And I think that's when a content business starts to move when you understand like, that's one of the Boston sports I can do in the state. So the way that they produce the content and how they ramp that out, they know what works. They've got the science and the creativity behind it. And they're kind of hitting each of their strengths with these inbuilt revenue streams, or YouTube and all this kind of stuff going on sponsorship. These are the areas that the scorecard started to launch itself into. And it was, yeah, it was a content business. It was also a tech business. It was about building those two things together to create something special in football,

Ronen Ainbinder 7:37

one of my lessons probably on the content side of things is, or probably one of the weaknesses that I see in the content side of things, is that the lag there's a lag in the results put in like represented from the efforts that you guys put, I'm sure that you guys have some experience with that. But I want to know if there was any point in time where you were like, are we doing this? Is this gonna hit it off one day? Is this gonna be something? Or are we just putting a lot of effort into something that maybe we're not seeing enough results? As of now, I wonder if there was a point in time where you were like, Man, this is pointless, like, what are we doing? Like, and then like, kind of like a little bit later start to hit it off.

Sanjit Atwal 8:22

When you're starting a business or your own creator, stuff is always hard, right? It will always be hard, even like the good times are hard. That's just the nature of the beast, right? That's what you're kind of getting into. There wasn't any time when any of us turned around and said, Oh, this isn't gonna work, or this is wrong. And yet we're wasting our time, whatever. Because it's very difficult to start a business with that kind of DNA in you. Right? So you probably see over a while when you interview entrepreneurs or successful entrepreneurs, successful people in any field, the key traits they all have are resilience, right? Check out a book called grit by Angela Duckworth. She spent years and years and years and years studying successful people in all areas, not just athletes or entrepreneurs, but scientists, doctors, everyone, and this single trait that she picked out to say, but this is what defines success. This is what this is. It's not talent. It's not any of these other things. They're great. But resilience is a single recurring trait. And I think when you look at good entrepreneurs, and you look at people, great creators, they don't have that, that feeling of this is all rubbish. We got to just stop this and go. Yeah, there are some things at work, and some things don't work, but they have the resilience scale. Okay, great. Now, how are we going to improve on that? How are we going to get to that next stage? Resilience is a nice way of saying it for a person. People, it's just pure pigheadedness. It's just pure stupidity, like, I'm just gonna keep on going. And let's see what happens, right? You see a lot of that with very successful people, they're, they're kind of blinkered to the rest of the world. They're just super, super focused. I don't recommend being like that because you miss out on a lot of other stuff. But having that resilience in you, that's what

Ronen Ainbinder 10:21

we're going to be talking a little more about the lessons from building Squawka and everything a little later. But I want to first ask Sanjit one question: man, you've been, of course, you've consultant to big clients in sports, media, Entertainment Television, you have such a background in television as in film, as you mentioned. So kind of like you've been in the advertising industry, you know exactly how it works. You kind of like your home. You have a home-field advantage when we're talking about advertising. So I wouldn't know if there are any three things that you would advise yourself when you were 18 years old, or things that you wish you knew, when you were 18 years old, just starting out in the advertising industry, I guess that it has changed a lot since you were 18 years old. I'm not saying that you're all SendGrid. I'm just saying that things change, supervisor. What are some things that you wish you knew if you were 18 years old right now?

Sanjit Atwal 11:22

I think there are a few things, first of all, any 18, you think you know everything right? And you know, it's the opposite side of things. I finished university at 21 and went into film and TV and advertising them. And I guess what I didn't appreciate was what the economy of ideas is, right? How an idea turns into something, and it's making money for someone, it's not just about having one big idea. And that sets up, what's the process? Like, what is all of the stakes in the chain that make this thing work? So that would be definitely one thing. Second, the second thing is some of the best training I've ever had, advertising on the sales side, but how to sell advertising to brands. I wish I'd had that early. Not because everybody wants to be a salesperson, but having a grasp of how sales work in advertising and media is one of the biggest, biggest tools you can have in your kit. Right? Just being able to converse in that land and being able to use their skills is massive. And if I could go back in time, and and and do that, as you're saying, probably, Yes, a bit like Back to the future, right? When you go back, and you've got like, you got all the systems for like, what was what all the sports scores would be? For me, it would be trying to impart the lessons that the convergence of platform and creative economy has shown the world now. Right, because the whole new thing just wasn't here. It wasn't here when I was 18 years old, or even 21 years old. It has instigated so much more in media and creativity in sport and entertainment. And I think if you went back all that time, and somebody knew, preordained that this is what was going to happen, you could probably do pretty well for yourself.

Ronen Ainbinder 13:28

What is the biggest or one of the biggest things that have impressed you the most or things that you're shocked that changed and they're new now that weren't as then like you can you have, like, give us an example or two,

Sanjit Atwal 13:43

you're gonna have to say social, right? Like, because that's just how, like, there wasn't back then there was MySpace, right? And that was the big social network. But that wasn't what people consume news, right? It wasn't something that was trying to take over the way that people spent their entertainment time. It was more dating and stuff like that. So the way that people consume content that's just fundamentally different from how things were back then, including podcasts as well.

Ronen Ainbinder 14:13

totally true, totally true. Let's talk about squatting a man mouse, one of my favorite businesses in football. It's one of my favorite pages to see on Twitter when in my football or soccer as they know it in the United States, List on Twitter. So very, very big fans of the type of content they deliver are always related to statistics, as you mentioned, but let's just talk about the business as itself and what it means to develop such a business of that size. Recognize that any kid on the planet that knows about football knows about squawker. So and also selling, I guess that the negotiation process and everything. So I wouldn't know if you can just give us a little bit of your experience or your lessons on that. Did its build-up to the point where you were convinced that you wanted to sell something, and you wanted to either keep working on it or not. And like just guide us through, like what was going on in your mind at the time and some of the lessons that you learned along the way?

Sanjit Atwal 15:17

I guess, I guess, first of all, when you're starting a business, and when I started my first business with Leo, like 10 years ago, none of it was about, Hey, this is how much money we can make. It just wasn't something lots of people do. And that's absolutely fine. That's just never been my, my thing. So it was never about, well, yeah, we can turn this into an 800 million pound business or this or that, or whatever is more about believing that if you created something cool. You put a good business model behind it, it would be one, you'd have lots of fun, you'd learn those things. And there's a way that you want to live your life, right? But then also that it's something that could potentially make money in the future. The business was so funny, to begin with, my business partner sold his previous business, so he put money in. And then we weren't paid, paid for the first year or so like, we just kind of just worked hard and tried to build it up. Then when we realized we had some things that would turn out pretty big. We start doing the whole fundraising thing, which is a whole other world of madness, like raising cash and presenting to venture capitalists and all this kind of stuff. It's a whole new world I've never experienced, just like when I was 18; I thought I knew everything. I was now 29 starting my first business. I was like, Hey, I know everything like this is gonna be easy. I can always go to pictures for money, not a problem. I can go do that. I know what it's like in a whole other world. But you learn, right, you learned, and I became quite good at it. And for years, you went from funding rounds funding round carried on raising cash. You then eventually executed a deal with Fremantle media, who were brought in by RTL, Bertelsmann. And then they basically had control of the business at that point. And they want to go a certain direction with it being their business at that point. So that's fine. And then they eventually sold it again, to continue the media who are now owners, they've grown the business, I think they will probably be the right owners for the business, ultimately. But going through that process is what you would imagine. It's super stressful. You never know what's going to happen. And when, I guess Looking back, I would say that the big deal is not always necessarily the right deal, if that makes sense. Like, it's quite hard to see what is expressed over here. It's seeing the wood through the trees, right? It's like if you're in the middle of the forest, and the trees all around you, you know what's on either side, you can just see the trees. That's it. Cool, let's go that way or that way or that way. But if you were a bit higher up looking around, you can see Oh, okay, over there, there's water over there, that's a town or, or whatever. So you don't. You never know that stuff. And you never know your way around the corporate environment of selling businesses. And all this kind of stuff. What I do know is we manage for six years to build the most amazing team. Like we had 55 people. By the time that I'd left, I was leaving, and that it was just the most incredible place. And you look around the football media industry, particularly now. There were so many people that all came from school. So many top journalists now. Their first job was cool because we gave everybody a shot. Like we had loads of interns, we were just creating so much content all the time that we knew everyone now. I go onto Twitter, and I'll see journalists talking about a random match in Italy, somewhere in Syria. Oh, yeah, that guy or that guy, or that girl, or that she was one of our journalists or whatever. So I'm very proud that we managed to help launch so many great careers in that business. But yeah, startups are hard men. And they're hard. We spoke about resiliency. You got to understand yourself and your strengths and what you're not good at just as much as you need to understand what you're good at. I like to surround myself with people who are way better than me at certain things that you've just gotta have it in whatever you're doing because you can't do everything. You cannot be everywhere. At the same time. And like I said before, if your sole goal is, Yeah, money in this stuff, then there are easier ways to go out and achieve money right that there are easier ways to do it and then starting a startup. That is not the rationale for Gaber's cash. a startup is you're trying to create something you desire to create something, and yes, you want cash eventually, but it's more about the journey. I think

Ronen Ainbinder 19:59

Do you have any regrets about selling it?

Sanjit Atwal 20:03

I think it's very difficult to ever say, ever say that anything was regret because you're learning, right? It's that you are literally there again, okay, now I know this was good, or this is bad, or this is how to do negotiation here and don't do that again or his warning flags you should look for from an investor or whatever, you don't know this stuff. And it's, it's pretty much impossible to look back and say I wish I hadn't done that because I'm very happy where I am right now. So like, you don't know how things would have panned out? I think I see.

Ronen Ainbinder 20:37

I see. I think that's a great takeaway. What is your vision? You've been working in sports, marketing and all the things that we mentioned? What is the future of sports marketing in your eyes? How is it going to be changed with the new technologies? How is Halfspace working towards it? What were your thoughts about that?

Sanjit Atwal 20:57

When I left Squawka, I looked at the sports industry and looked at rights holders, particularly football clubs and people like that. Trying to understand well, what the hell is your business? Like? What is it like? What is it? Even though school was in the sports industry, it wasn't in the business of sport, right? We weren't rights holders. We didn't work with the publisher's immediate business media technology because we work for fans. But I was curious about how someone like a football club ran their operation. So throughout 2017, I did loads of consultancy work. Brentford football club gave me my first shot. This is just on my own. Fulham football club did a bit of work for them, learning other sports as well. And what I was interested in was okay, digitally. From the technology and content point of view, General marketing. How would you guys set up? What connects to what, like, Where's where all the plumbing goes? Is there plumbing? Or should you say this plumbing and there is nothing? And sometimes, it was that case. The first learning that I had was when I was talking to people like football clubs about data. They just thought of an email address. And lots of people in sport thought that's what data was. And that's fine. It's a massively important part of the data setup. It's not the only part by any stretch of the imagination. And that was a bit of a shock. And then I also saw that these football clubs and everybody like this had so many agencies around them that they did share that six or seven, like all doing slightly different things. And I thought, Wow, you guys are spending a lot of money, and you're quite a small club, like why are you doing this? It doesn't make any sense. And you start to realize that because the teams are so small, like mostly apart from the top 0.01% soccer clubs globally, everybody has teamed up pretty small, right? And they've been hired from within or the x journalists, whatever. And now they've got to run a sponsorship campaign across Facebook, for example, like they're just not what they've been trained to do. And you start to think that, okay, hang on a minute, there's a better model here. Because ultimately, what's been happening, not just for nearly all sports, is this weird space where people spend way too much on their marketing and commercial operations, with loads of agencies, loads, suppliers, everywhere, all this kind of stuff. But because they're not putting the right data in at the start of that, that journey started that funnel. They're not getting the most efficient results. So they're spending too much and not getting enough. It's literally a CFOs nightmare. It's crazy, like,, sport is this sport. It's fundamentally a bit of a broken, broken industry in the way that it's set up. And one of the problems that sport has is also its strength. So tribal, it's a passionate sport. We never had to work hard to get eyeballs. We had to work hard to get distribution in all that course of human history when everyone's struggling for each sport because it's a sport. And guess what? Anybody can have it now. Is this kid on Instagram can on tik-toks get more reaching the football club? What are you talking about? Like, and he hasn't done anything. He's opening a soda bottle with his teeth. Like, this is the world we live in now. So sport has not worked hard enough, right? Trying to compete. You look at something like FinTech. You look at e-commerce, you've got these areas, look at how scientific every part of the user journey is, and how everything is analyzed. And I was in e-commerce before I started school. So I know these things, and I was like, Guys, if you just worked as hard as these guys do, you'd blow embryos out of the water with your product from a commercial, you would be brilliant. You're already good. But you could be over here. And figuring out how to position a business to say right with data at the heart of everything. And this is how it's gonna affect the rest of your business in terms of commercial marketing, right? sponsorship ticketing, all of these kinds of areas. And this was four years ago now. And I think that what we're seeing now in the whole discourse industry is more of a shift to not just digital transformation. It's more of a shift towards the audience, right? Trying to understand the audience and how the audience impacts them in multiple different channels. On the same day in the same minute in the same sector, how does that happen? It's not just that we've got a baseball game on. That's all product. Yeah, that's your product, but it's only once every x amount of time. Your fans don't stop being fans at one o'clock in the morning giving important service, right? Just there's anything that the game is on. So what's your strategy here? How are you being part of the universe? How are you doing that? And I think that this shift audience is the. I'm very careful not to say fans necessarily. I think it is about the audience, the shift of the audience, I think the big change that's coming, understanding the audience and understanding how to tailor your proposition to them. And to understand that you've got to get deep into the days, you've got to get deep into the audience data, understanding their affinities, understanding their socioeconomic status, these kinds of things, because this is how you're going to best communicate with them and help them enjoy your products. This is what it is to work like a FinTech brand, think marketing tech brand, like work as hard as they do have a comparable tech stack, these kinds of things. And, as an add on to that, I would say probably the single biggest danger, the dangerous trap that sports organizations rights holders governing bodies have been falling into is it may sound slightly contradictory because I have been praising the platform economy is putting all of their content, their great stuff, or into just YouTube or Instagram or whatever. Even though you get massive reach there, and it's great, and you can monetize some of that content, not all of it, some of it and revenue share whatever. As good as that stuff is that data does not belong to that data belongs amongst that data belongs to jack Dorsey. Now, whoever is behind the platform that you're on, and getting people in sports to understand that, and athletes as well, that's one of our critical missions, is helping people get that because the bare bones of where the advertising industry is sponsorship, commercial, big commercial revenue like that, where that's going are if you're out pitching a new sponsor, you say, Hey, guys, you can go in front of my shirts, you can name of Stadium, you got access to our fans, and all this exposure. That's great. We've already discussed how easy it is to get reached these days. Right? Very, very, you don't need to pay 20 million in sponsorship to get that the issue comes when that brand turns around, says. Oh, hang on a minute. I can just buy your fans on Facebook for 21 p a click when you g4. And sponsorship is not just about reach or the clicks; it's about credibility is about seeing that association. It's about so many other things. However, when you're in a tough economy, lots of lots of countries around the world will be in tough economies for the next five to six years. That's just what David's done. And it was bad anyway. When you're talking to brands like that, they're looking at the bottom line, right? Ultimately, they're like, well, what are we going to spend? How are we going to do this? I don't need to do sponsorship with you guys because I can buy your fans on Facebook. And yeah, whatever, I'll run a strategy around that. And that's cool. The power of sports as an engagement tool is what people should be selling. But if you're selling that, and you haven't got the equitable data set to Facebook to back that up. I think you're dead in the water. In the next slide, I think I looked at what you are? What are you selling? Ultimately here? Like how are you competing because you're not, and you have willingly given away your data? It's not just someone's coming up. Come up with a new strategy. You're just pushing all of your content into these other channels. And you've got no control over data ownership. So building out these coherent first-party data structures, as well as doing your other platform stuff. super important. Don't stop doing that. You have to be building your first-party data structure as well. It will affect you in so many more ways than your email, CRM list, right? It's so many other things that are going to affect you in the future as a business. And I guess that's one of the problems. I mean, football clubs in the UK, many of them are kind of part business, and they're probably more social institutions. Right? They're local, local, and some of their fans will sponsor local when they hear the community, which is fine. ramp up the thinking into becoming a proper modern content lead business, and these are the things that make it

Ronen Ainbinder 29:40

so interesting how it ties up to the first discussion that we had regarding product or distribution, right how soccer has the distribution, but what about the product right try to as an organization, try to put up some effort on that on that part, using the data on your behalf and trying to understand more about your audience. It's so interesting that you say that because even as content creators, I'm sure that you felt this the same way at some point in squawker. Still, it's all about knowing what they like and enjoying more to create engagement, right? So it's not about how many followers you have, but it's more like how many followers engage with what you post and engage with what you share. And so I guess that it's so interesting to see the shift. And what you mentioned, man, it blew my mind. Like, if you think about it, you're mostly competing against companies that already own the data, right? You're already competing against Facebook, and I don't see it like Manchester United. Even though that is the biggest club globally, I don't see it competing against late like, they're not even close. Right? It's a technology company versus an entertainment provider. So try to be creative, using technology to find ways to learn about your audience and get closer to your audience without the need to use Facebook or any other platforms out there. I think that's key. And if that, if I understand correctly, that's what you mean, sent? Is there anything else that you want to add?

Sanjit Atwal 31:08

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I definitely don't want people to go away from listening to this and think, oh, hey, we should stop using our social platforms. That is just not what I'm saying. You just go harder on it and even get even tighter on your strategy. But what I'm saying is, alongside that, there has to be a strong first-party data collection strategy on your own site, on your own and operator platforms, on your websites, on your apps, and other products that you're bringing out that you own. And this, this, this is quite an interesting one when you look at Real Madrid. They're talking about the billion pounds of whatever they've got around the world. Yeah, we got a massive but biggest fan base globally, never any club with any rights. He's like, what are you doing?

Because one of the things that we do a lot of work in our in-house space is figuring out levels of fandom. So you may have someone who's following you on Facebook. They're going to every head, they're a season ticket holder, they're going to every home match they're buying the kit, every year, they're buying the mini one for the kids, and they're buying presents for the rest of their family and their friends or whatever hospitality once a year, maybe you've got all of that. And then you may have a fan. in Southeast Asia, somewhere who loves the club is great. They're following on Facebook, and then maybe catching some game in a bar or at home or whatever. You're buying some stuff online, but highly unlikely they're gonna be coming over to the game that can be that level of hospitality. And these are the kind of things I'm not saying that person is not a fan of. I'm saying some levels need to be understood to maximize the commercial and marketing potential of an organization. So just to come up with a blanket statement and say, hey, look, all you billion people. It's me, I think that bothers people. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything. Like it means that you people are aware of you. And that's awesome. That's super cool. But anybody who's building a budget can just come in and buy that, right? They can if they want. That's not saying they should, the power of sport and the power of sponsorship, particularly in association in drug credibility for new brands, and driving, driving brands in new areas of the world, which is why I mentioned shark have been amazingly successful, in helping brands around the world that piggyback off their brand, as a local sponsor, these are the things people should be, concentrated on. But you've got to be doing it with a great data strategy behind it because this is where the world's going.

Ronen Ainbinder 33:41

Yeah, this is what the algorithm is. Its algorithms are building for us. So I guess that you first understand the algorithm and also have an army of your own. It has been such a pleasure to have you man, I can't leave without asking you a last more personal question. Share a little bit more of your spirit. Let's suppose that you find Aladdin's lamp and start to touch it, and all of a sudden, you get the gene from an Aladdin, the one we all know so, and he offers you one wish, just one. What would you ask for?

Sanjit Atwal 34:19

one wish? Well, I think that's an interesting one. So I'm involved in several other organizations outside of my day job, one of which is a newly launched business in Thailand, which is working to rebuild and preserve coral reefs. Around the island. Not sure if you list your listeners aware, coral reefs are basically lungs of the ocean, right? Helping drive more awareness of these kinds of things is super important. But, the main thing that I guess I would answer is That we should be focusing on raising more awareness and driving more effective change in the climate. That's why I'd ask for basically a blanket. Kind of every organization has this rule. Spirits were probably neutral and more because that's what the world is meant to be.

Ronen Ainbinder 35:20

To bring awareness to such an important and relevant topic, I guess that there's no one better than you that knows about marketing and distribution. So I'm sure that everyone in the world is going to eventually know about that. And so, dude, man, I want to wrap it up right here. I want to thank you so much for coming to the halftime snacks. It has been such a fun experience to have you and to talk with you and learn from you and your insights. Man, it was such an episode. I can't thank you enough.

I am looking forward to everything that you will be doing in the next couple of years, man, and I hope we stay in touch to work on things together. Anyway, thank you so much for coming to the halftime snacks.