Sean Callanan: Growing the Sports Business Through Digital (Full Transcript)
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Ronen Ainbinder
Today's Halftime Snack features an extraordinary and unique guest. I highly doubt there's anyone out there with such a well-diversified curriculum in the sports industry as his. He's the founder of Sports Geek — a platform that helps teams, leagues, and athletes expand their businesses and generate more revenues through digital strategies.
He's also the founder of SG Esports and owner of League of Legends professional team Gravitas. He's widely famous for hosting the Sports Geek Podcast since 2014, where he talks about digital marketing and the different applications of technology in sports. His area of expertise lies in the intersection between brand management, digital marketing, and technology. Nevertheless, he can provide insights around any topic on the sports and esports industry.
Our guest is an entire polymath of the industry, and I can't wait to learn from him. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, Sean Callanan!
Sean Callanan
Oh, thank you very much, Ronen. And I think he should be my hype-man! Can I hire you to introduce me everywhere? That's terrific!
Ronen Ainbinder
man. It would be my pleasure. It's an honor to host you. Thank you so much for taking my invitation to the Halftime Snacks, You're a legend, and I'm so happy to have you here. And I'm sure the listeners will be happy as well. So I want to start by talking about how you see yourself in the future. And I want to ask you specifically when you look forward to what you aim to achieve in your life, what do you want on your eventual Wikipedia page, which I didn't find? I thought I was going to find the Wikipedia page about you, but not yet. Yeah, but I'm sure in the future, we'll find one. What do you want that Wikipedia page to say?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, Wikipedia is still on the bucket list. At a conference in Montreal, I was run by seeing to score at the conference call centers run by the guy from Cirque du Soleil. I was lucky enough to go through a workshop with the people that design the Circle of Life shows. And they and they started to dive in on the why have a show. And then they in the workshop, they said that they started doing the Why have you and why are you here? And what are you trying to do? And so I've still got the piece of paper over there on my board. And it was, and this was 2018, I wrote down. I want digital to be the number-one revenue driver for sports by the year 2030. And then they said, what's the Why? And I wanted to be recognized as one of the digital forefront forefathers for the digital sports industry. So I joke when I started Sports Geek, sports teams had one person updating the website, and I've used a good friend Jeremy McPeak was at the Phoenix Suns, he's web handle used to be suns webmaster. And now there's a whole industry there. And so I'm proud of that, a lot made a lot of friends in the, in the space. But yeah, if Wikipedia was listening and I want to put up a profile, that's what I want to see it. But I do want to see, I guess, digital and the revenue coming in from Digital to continue to grow. I think it got nice; it's one of the good outcomes of 2020; we're going to look at the positives of 2021; the positives of that were that more digital activations are run last year than any other year. More sponsorship, we're starting to look into that space. So I think COVID accelerated my goal for 2030. So if that's Yeah, that's what I like. And maybe, if I'm greedy, maybe a couple of Gravitas World Championships that go on that Wikipedia page as well. But pretty much digital and growing the sports industry in that space, it would be something that I'd love on the Wikipedia page.
Ronen Ainbinder
That's awesome. Sean, I'm sure that the first line will be a visionary and a pioneer of digital integrations in sports, and that's going to be it, man.
Sean Callanan
That's awesome. Terrific. Well, let's get you on as a Wikipedia editor because I'm loving everything you're saying so far.
Ronen Ainbinder
I'm so down, man! We have so many different youngsters, listeners of the show trying to get their careers going in sports. And I want to know if you can share with us your story. I know it is a very, very long story because, my god, your LinkedIn page, you can scroll down 25 times, and you can still find more and more experiences. But I want to know how exactly that you started in the sports industry. How'd you break-in? Tell us a little bit about it.
Sean Callanan
Yep, yeah, long. LinkedIn just says that I'm old and experienced. But I guess it's also the background of Sports Geeks. So I started my career. From a unique point of view, I did better of it at uni, a mix of business and in it. And I went into a world of coding, but I was always a sports fan. So I was a developer many times. But even as even younger, I was going to Melbourne tigers, a local basketball team here. And I was making a fool of myself on the stains like I feel like I was doing fan engagement before it was invented. I was getting people doing the wave and game entertainment. I was on the game entertainment committee of the local team. And even then, like 21, 22, I wanted to get into sports. But I was in it. And it was paying well. And so I sort of dabbled a little bit in sports over the years, thinking I can get into the world of sports. I produced a TV show for both basketball and football clubs. I did a data project with some US colleges. Again, these are all like side hustle type businesses that I did with a few friends, a few colleagues, thinking that I'll leave this job and go into the little sports, it's such exciting sports, all of these things. But I never made that leap. Like again. And there are lots of people who might be thinking that career change pace. In 2009, I ended up finishing up at a job, being computer developer, running development teams that sort of reached my end to the end of doing that I'd sort of sick of building programs for people in different industries, and then sort of wanted to get into the world of sports. So when I started Sports Geek, I thought I would just be doing a lot of the geek stuff that I've been doing for 15 years, helping them with their databases and CRM and building systems for the world of sport because it still needed. I thought it needed some help. Like I was a frustrated sports fan, getting terrible emails and not communicating with me, right. When I started, I started looking at that and started talking to different teams, but looking at what they were doing in that comms and digital space. And, a few, little a few, a few platforms were just starting to rise, then Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, they were starting to grow, and the sports teams were starting to dabble in them. And so my tech skills or my geek skills gave me enough insight to go well; this is what Mr. Zuckerberg is doing over here, this is what Instagram is trying to do. So I started boxing, telling teams, well hang on, you've got to start talking to the fans using this tone and leveraging these platforms because these fans are all active and social on these platforms. And the teams didn't quite understand it. Early on, I applied those skills that I'd learned in the 15-year career to say, Hey, this is what you should be doing in this digital space. That enabled me to start working with teams, talking to people in the sports industry to say, hey, you've got to be on this, you've got to be on these platforms. And that's sort of how my first couple of got my first couple of clients got my first couple of speaking gigs. And it's sort of snowballed from there.
Ronen Ainbinder
Would you say that the side hustles that you mentioned that you produce a few events and TV shows around sports? Would you say that was kind of like the bridge that started to feel the gap between it and your knowledge in sports? And then how you came up with the creative idea of serving clients from sports? In that way. Would you say that has something to do or?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, a little bit like us, because I was always it, was a bit of a sport was a passion. Like I love sports love going to sports. And I thought there was a way to do it, do it better. Doing things like producing a TV show on community TV and playing around with sponsorship packages, or assessing fans was like, well, this, and saying that was successful. We just didn't get to the next big contract. Like there are a few things didn't quite like we got a club deal. And then the TV contract change and every team got to a TV show for free. And we're like, oh, we just did a whole deal to put on TV. So we had to miss that. But it still gave me confidence that the ideas we were doing, we're working with other people implemented in other parts of the world. So the ideas were right. It was just a matter of keep throwing them out there. So but it gave me more insight into the world of sport. But yeah, but it gave me some skills, and then saying, I do enjoy doing this and gave me more, I guess, drive to chase it down. But like sports gig when I started, I spent nine months telling everyone that I knew the sports game. Now, like, we don't need a sports game like Yes, you do. You're not engaging on Facebook, and you're not on it. When I started having some success, or like, Oh, we do, and then that's when the work side opens up, more people started getting hired. And they're like, well, we need help with this. Can you come in and help?
Ronen Ainbinder
Thank you so much for sharing. It's inspiring, and I'm sure that many of the up and coming talents in the industry probably would understand that you have some side hustles in the sports industry. If you're doing a podcast or writing, it can also help you build some reputation, build your network, and then arrive at that moment like yourself to create Sports Geek and then communicate it to all the people you already know.
Sean Callanan
Yeah, I mean, it was funny. It was funny because like I was producing content, I was blogging, I was I hadn't done podcasting at that point. And so I was just sort of saying, This is what I think and people were watching. At one point, I ranked all the teams in the local league here and said this how I think they're doing. And I had one team call me up angry because that will below their crosstown rival guys, we've done all this work, and he just hated He's like, and I defended it and said, Well, this is what I'm trying to do. Three months later, they became a client. Because we had had that conversation, so yeah, those kinds of things, getting your name out there having robust discussions, it's worthwhile.
Ronen Ainbinder
Nowadays, I would consider you an icon of the industry. Most people know you from Twitter, from LinkedIn, from the work that you put in. But I want to know, what are the primary sources of inspiration? Or what method models do you use to deliver creative work and stay on top of the game?
Sean Callanan
Yep, so I think there's a couple of pieces, like, one of the phrases I use on the podcast a lot, and it's sometimes creating controversy, some people don't like it, but it's still steel with pride. Right? Like, if you say cool things being done in different parts of the world, or different industries, like, suddenly, there's a twist, and how can you do it for your fans? So, early on, I was doing a lot of assessment of what, what are the pro teams doing in the US market? What are they doing in the European market? How can I make that different for the Australian market? And then, additionally, and I think many people do that they follow they get in the bubble of sport and go, Oh, look at what the Cowboys have done. And look at what Arsenal have done. Oh, look what the Lakers have done. And I go, how can we do it? And that's great, because then that just sort of lifts the bar, you twist it, you do a little bit more did a bit differently, gets everyone pushing one another. But then I also like to look outside of sports, like, what's happening in music? How are they engaging with fans at a live event? How are they doing it differently? What would be the sports version of that? So I'm always looking for a different way to look in other verticals, where people potentially aren't.
Because there are many fresh ideas, I think I'm lucky in the network that I've created that they are sharing. So I've got some people that I trust if they share an article, that's an article I'm going to read. The other thing is, so and then the other thing is, is just try to, yeah, always be on the lookout for new and fresh ideas and see what's happening in that startup space to see how it might try to change the trajectory of what's we're doing. So even though I'm not coding and geeking out as much these days, I can still sort of seeing the tech landscape to go. Oh, that's a cool bit of tech. What might that be? But then also, there's been a whole bunch of tech that's like, it will try that product, or that product doesn't exist anymore. But there's a little bit of you gotta, and you have to try it to at least learn a little bit from it.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, I like the idea of looking at other markets and industries. As you said, sports is entertainment. So how many other forms of entertainment died? So I mean, we could talk a lot, a lot about it. But I think that's kind of like how you've been able to keep yourself on top of the game for so long. And that's awesome. I'm very curious to ask you about eSports. Because I saw that you own a team, and you also created this SG eSports company. When did you first think about eSports? Or can you take us back to what year you realize this was going to be a thing? You've been in the industry for more than 20 years. So I'm sure you have a lot of insight into it. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Sean Callanan
Yeah. So I mean, as part of Sports Geek, I'm regularly on, pre-pandemic on the conference circuit, talking on stages and, and meeting people. And I think it was about 20 2016 I was at a conference. Speaking at a conference, and good friend of mine, Lou Sticker, invited me up to the Gold Coast, and there was a conference panel on eSports, and there's a couple of guys there. Dave Harris, who'd gone and bought attain that I, do Dave and I'm like, What are you doing? You've started a venture capital firm. You bought an Esports. Team? What's that? What do you mean? And Nick Vanzetti worked at ESL as a total organizer, and they sort of just laid out Hey, this is what a sport is. And this was also back in then the sports industry was even just going is a sport, is it it's just people playing computer games and, and what but when I was talking to Dave and Nick and sort of learning a little bit more, I went eSports was a lot like sports when I started Sports Geek. When I started Sports Geek, all the fans were congregating on all these social and digital channels. The official teams and league broadcasters hadn't made that connection to all these digital fans or are eSports that digital natives, they on Twitch, they're already on Twitter, they're already on Instagram. They're active. They're not. They're not going to TV and radio, all these older platforms. And so I said, well, it's the same, it just and I haven't made the connection of commercializing and, so sports gig had been around for six or seven years. And I'm like, and with figured out pieces with this commercializing digital fans. Let's get on board. And so one of my clients in the AFL Australian rules here, the Adelaide Crows, who had been working with for a while, I was starting to look at the esports scene in the same way that in North America, pro teams were buying up these sports teams. And I said, Yeah, all right, talk to wholeheartedly agree it's a way to extend your sponsorship activation, reaching a new market, potentially, maybe get some fans across. Still, it's that sponsor and reaching your audience. And so I was, I guess, advocating and being a bit of an evangelist for eSports. In the wave, I believe in its long term, like the people I grew up, watching the Detroit Pistons beat up a Michael Jordan, I watched basketball when I was growing up as I played basketball.
In contrast, today's kids or today's youth are watching and playing fortnight and League of Legends and call of duty. So, I looked up and, to Isaiah Thomas, and Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson and those light, whereas, if you're a gamer, you're looking at Ninja as a streamer, and you're following that. So I saw that sort of trajectory of saying, hey, if anyone else wants to buy a team or get involved with the team, let me know. I'd love to be involved in some way. So it was, yeah, probably 2016 2017. The good thing about a podcast is you can interview people and ask them a bunch of stuff. So I use my podcast for interviewing a bunch of people in the esports space. To learn more, so interviewed Brendan Donahue from the Commissioner of the NBA 2K, some of the guys at Riot Games, Nigel smart from Adelaide Crows, about them buying an Esports team. So it started to give me also an insight from behind the scenes of the industry. So then, I think it was in 2018, Riot Games came to me and said, Thank you for telling everyone about eSports and League of Legends eSports, can you help us find someone for the spot in the league? And I said, Sure. And so I helped build out the tender, and I went, hang on, I sort of told everyone I should get in. So I put my hand up and apply for the tender. And November 28, we got the call that we had a spot in the league. And so we had six weeks to come up with the name, recruit players come up with the logo, come up with the jersey design. And January 2019, Gravitas played their first match. So it's quite strange to go from not having a team to now we're managing a team of gamers and trying to learn it in this new league. So it's been exciting. And I guess to wrap up that story, the guys that I saw on the conference panel in 2016, we just did a deal with, and they're going to now run our league that Gravitas is in, so it's like a perfect circle. And I was happy to be part of that to give some longevity to the League of Legends eSports scene here in this market.
Ronen Ainbinder
Man, would you agree that you don't know where a conversation will end? Isn't it crazy? How you ended up doing that because of a conversation you had in conference years and years ago?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, it is. It is that, and I think when you're asking me, when that first thought like, like literally, from it's a like a five-year journey to go from, like listening to Dave and Nick and having them both on the podcast. And Dave was an owner in our league and competing against him. And going to EMEA, which was hosted by Nick and like, be part of the scene and then it's like, oh, guess what, full circle, and I was helping them with Riot bring this new league to fruition. So yeah, I'm excited about the bat the spice, and I guess the growth longevity of what sports will be
Ronen Ainbinder
Man, somehow, you're still able to be a visionary and know the up and coming segments of the market and the industry.
Sean Callanan
Don't drop me off yet. I understand you're just having a little bit of fun.
Ronen Ainbinder
Next time I want to know what's the up and coming thing. I'm going to make sure you come through the podcast again. But that's not what I'm here for, but yeah!
Sean Callanan
One exciting trend at a time! Yeah, I think eSports is here to stay. But for mine, and I hope so. Yeah, I look forward to it. At the moment, we're going through recruiting for players for this upcoming season. And my goal is to develop the players and develop the scene like I want to see, and I'm happy one of the guys applied in our first year, just fly to fly to match this morning, over in North America. So like, that's amazing that someone that had his rookie year with us two years ago is now playing in North America. So my goal is one. Hopefully, Gravitas is successful. But I'd love to see former gravitas players playing worldwide because then that says what we're doing here is right, and then allows people to go, Oh, where did you come from? I came from Gravitas. And whether you're in Mexico or Detroit to London, you can be following Gravitas. That's sort of the goal.
Ronen Ainbinder
I'm going to make a mental note about eSports. And I'm going to come back to you in five years to see where we at this Sean. You've been able to develop a very important or relevant brand of yourself on social media, particularly Twitter and LinkedIn. I want to know if there are any lessons that you can share with us about networking, building an audience creating content delivering through your podcast, your newsletter, your presence. Can you share with us a little bit about that?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, I think I think it background. So it gives me a bit of an unfair advantage, to be honest, especially on LinkedIn,
Ronen Ainbinder
So you know how the algorithm works?
Sean Callanan
So it's not a, it's a bit of that there's a little bit of playing how the algorithm works, but I was early on LinkedIn. So it is an industry that was on LinkedIn earlier. So in my former job, I was running a development team for 300 people. And we were going through the terrible scenario of downsizing and department people getting laid off, which is what a lot of people have had in the last 12 months. But I pretty much rallied everybody and said, Look, there's 300 of us, let's all get on LinkedIn. Because in three years, we'll all be in different places. And potentially, we'll be able to give each other a hand. And so I saw the early value of LinkedIn of that the power of the network. When I started Sports Geek, I pushed hard into LinkedIn to make the appropriate connections, especially in the US market, where I think the US market is more open to me to networking people with interesting ideas. And so I did a lot of work there reaching out to people telling people what I was doing, being interested in what they're doing, I think it's key to be like two things be interested. And interesting. You can't just be one, and you can't be one or the other. You got to be both. So you're going to be interested in what they're doing. And sort of and being engaged with their doing, but then also bring something and bring some value to them. So if it's, whether it's someone you're, is that your same level, or it's someone above you or someone below you, you should it should be both. And then the other part has been, I guess, closing the loop on those in real-life connections and so going to a lot of conferences, a lot of networking events, doing a lot of virtual stuff in the last 12 months. Platforms like lunch club have been good. We ran some sports business zoom calls, or last year, I hosted about 70 of those, just inviting the industry that was all working from home, and we didn't know how this thing was going to pan out. So making those real-life connections then solidifies a social connection. So if you have, flicking through your feed, if I see Shane Harmon, who's a good mate of mine, who I fatally met via Twitter, but now I've made beta multiple conferences.
We might only see each other once or twice a year because he lives in New Zealand. I'm in Australia, and we normally only made in America. But we're always following each other and have a closer social connection. So it's about Yeah, it's great. You can follow a second person, but it's making a connection with somebody go I'm going to stop now and again and read or reply. It's been important. That helped building network has helped the content I've put out, whether it's the podcasts, or speaking and those kinds of things has been important.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, I love how you mentioned trying to make it more human humanizing the interaction else. You just feel that you're talking to a machine. And I think that's one reason you can also drive engagement like some of the big names in the industry do, and I think that's great. Sean, I want to ask you now about Sports Geek, the company that you currently run. I want to know if you envision any business model pivots in the next 10, 20 years. And if you do, then in what ways do you think it would change?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, I think there are. So we've got a process digital to dollars that helps rightsholders, teams, leagues, and athletes understand how to take their audience and make money. And so it's knowing your audience, knowing your content, distribution, pitch, and sorting what that sponsorship piece looks like, and I think that now your pitch is going to be where most of the change happens. So I think we're going to go from, Hey, take your logo, put it on my jersey, put it on my content, and say, Thank you, and I'll write your report to more of a media buying and a performance model. People will buy, they'll still do the sponsorship, but it'll be valued at a media buying type of media selling type of option. So he's $300,000 that we're putting into your content. And it's tracked and measured. So it's the same as buying an ad on TV or digital via programmatic. So I think there's that piece of sports sponsorship, activations will become more media buying. And then I think there'll be more performance stuff. Instead of dealing with a car company, where they just give you a bag of money, and you put their logo, you get a picture with a player in front of a car. There'll be more incentives and more push to say, how many cars did you sell, how many test drives Did you book, which I think there is a big upside, and a big, big opportunity for the world of sports, if they get that, right. So I think that's where there'll be more innovation in that space. And I think some of them already, some of the teams are starting to do that, in helping, sponsors sell, because that's where the sponsor, the sponsors, will be far tougher on where they're spending money. And if they can, if they can spend money and know they're getting a result, they will continue to spend money. So it'll come down to how well your fans, the data you've got, and be able to hit the right fan with the right offer to be able to get success there. But that's where I think it'll be and goes back to the digital beam, and I'm one driver in sports. If a sports team can say we've got a million people in our database, we're not going to send the email to everybody. But 40,000 people are ready to buy that car. We're going to send it to them and look at that 2,000 people bought a car, like that kind of data science and marketing, and it is going to be crucial going forward.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, and I believe that the introduction of microtransactions powered by blockchain technology will measure this specific number, even if it's like after a few decimals of how much interaction a certain post made or how much money did you spend on an actual ad? Based on engagement and fan interaction? Am I right? Do you see that also combining?
Sean Callanan
Yeah, the measurement and knowing where your money is gone is getting better? All the time. There are parties out there that can tell you what a tweet is worth or what a post is worth. That's it's going to get better across social, Digital, or live streaming. Like if you're looking at an Ott service or tweet stream, what's happening in that right corner? How often are people looking at it? Are they clicking on it? Like all of that data for running down that digital tracking rabbit hole, the more that you can explain to a bot that this is what you bought and by the way, this is what we delivered, the better will be because that's wherein our pace know your value has been the pace that's most sports go we don't know what to price this. And so for us, it's an exercise. It is going well, it's what we think it's worth, but on the pitchside, you get the result people want. It doesn't matter how many Facebook posts you did or how many Instagrams you did if they sold all those cars have got those credit card signups or got that uplift in sales. Like that's what they want, that's what their businesses.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, and I think that most of them, let's say athletes or not, not athletes, but maybe influencers or people with high followings. You mentioned this thing called know your audience. I guess that I've read on Twitter about a story of a guy with probably 9 million followers who couldn't even sell ten t-shirts, so it probably wasn't even a match. I guess that it's also a lesson for people, athletes, and influencers with audiences to know who they're talking to and who they can match with for their potential sponsorships.
Sean Callanan
Completely.
Ronen Ainbinder
Now I want to ask you a last and personal question, which's more directed towards the listeners. And in case you have a few practical recommendations, two, three practical recommendations you could give to someone looking to develop their career in the business or technology side of sports, what would you advise them and why?
Sean Callanan
So, as I said before, LinkedIn is king.
Ronen Ainbinder
? Over Twitter?
Sean Callanan
First of all, fill out your profile and make it compelling. And all those things like too many people don't do that. I see too many. Too many inappropriate LinkedIn photos like these work, right. So it shouldn't be your CV like I, I. I was on LinkedIn because I didn't want to write a CV or resume anymore. And I said, That's it goes to go there. So make that up to date. LinkedIn is valuable like you can make those one connections, people, unfortunately, like, because what Twitter is, there are not as many sports executives that there were on. When I started, like, when I 2009 2010, there were many approachable people, but you get to a certain level of a C, C level executive, they're not as active. So there's a lot of people that are active on Twitter. Unfortunately, you can still make it. It has some good groups in different verticals like there are sports creative, all the designers seem to still be on Twitter. And a lot of the digital folk are, but like them, if you're trying to get into commercial or events, they might not be on there. So it's, I think LinkedIn is valuable, but it's to embed yourself in the scene as much as you can. So if that is going to the net, finding out going to networking events, contributing, or being a part of some online events, like I said, our sports be zoom calls. We had a wide selection of people turning up, some were C-level execs, and managers and some people were students that were just coming in, back to that point of being interested. And interesting, always try to deliver value. Like, especially when you ask, like if you want to ask someone, Hey, can you tell me about the industry? Or can I have an informational interview or those kinds of things? Make sure you're, I guess, providing some value to them. I'm a big believer in helping people look up. So, help people also that need their help as well. Don't just go, hey, I've got to this step, don't worry a little bit behind you. Like, it works both ways. And then also look, I guess, look for opportunity, like everyone looks at sports and goes, I want to, I want to work there, which is a bit like, I'm a basketball I want to play in the NBA when there's a whole bunch of legs underneath. And there's a whole bunch of sports that are the big sexy sports that need lots of help, whether it's a local club, we've got lots of local clubs that have done a tough in 2020, with hardly any local-sport, whether it be a Cricket Club, or a football club, or a basketball club. Like if someone's saying, hey, I want to get into digital space, I'm like, have you run a digital channel for your local club because they need help. And you can do whatever you want. Like, you can just take it off the 62-year-old club prison and say, I'll run the Twitter, and I'll run the Instagram. And it's your play plaything. And so if someone says, Who should I hire, I'd be like, well, look at that person. They're doing cool things with a local sport. That's hard. So that's what I'd be looking at that because it allows you to build out your portfolio. Without being right there. Because if someone says, Here you go, there's the Lakers Twitter account. And you've never done it before. Like, it's nerve-racking. So yeah, that's what I would suggest. And that's how you would also be found and get your name out there. Sports is not a place where you look for a job board like the jobs happen, and then they get filled, and now it gets advertised because it's a bit of who, but that's the industry. So you've sort of got a bed yourself in the scene somehow, and conferences and networking are networking events are everyone hopefully when they return.
Ronen Ainbinder
Awesome, Shawn, Where can the listeners find you?
Sean Callanan
Well, if they can't find me, I've done a terrible job as a marketer. But if they Google Sean Callanan, they'll find me. Sports Geek HQ is the website. Sports Geek on most channels. My name is my social handle on most channels. But yeah, if you can't find me, then I don't deserve to be found. So that's just me putting a high bar on my marketing, but yeah, Sean Callanan, most platforms will find me.
Ronen Ainbinder
If you can't find Sean, let Sean know, because then he'll know that he's doing something wrong. Well, Shawn, I think that's a great place to wrap today's conversation. Thank you for coming to the Halftime Snacks and providing so much of your insightful and, obviously, well-developed experience in the industry. And you're an absolute legend. You're an inspiration for all my listeners and me as well. And man, hopefully, we can meet up sometime in the future in real life. But for now, thank you so much for coming to the Halftime Snacks.