Andres Cardenas: Building Brands in Sports Media (Full Transcript)

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Ronen Ainbinder 0:32

Coming up on Halftime Snacks is a man whose passion and love for sports have successfully driven his career for the last 18 years. Today, he's the CMO at Minute Media – one of the leading media and technology-focused platforms in sports. Minute Media is the mastermind behind publications like The Players' Tribune, 90min, FanSided, etc. Our guest is responsible for all marketing functions across Minute Media's portfolio, the production of branded content, athlete marketing, and so much more.

So you all better get your snacks ready because this episode will be JAMMED with insights, lessons, and laughs. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen: Andres Cardenas!

Andres Cardenas 1:14

then. Hey, how's it going? Thanks for inviting my brother. Appreciate it.

Ronen Ainbinder 1:18

Of course, man. Let's kick it off with a quick, fun icebreaker; man, I want to ask you, would you rather be locked for a day in an amusement park or in the library?

Unknown Speaker 1:28

Amusement park? That probably puts me in a non-intellectual and another electrical box.

Ronen Ainbinder 1:37

Man, I guess I guess it means that you'd rather have fun than learn?

Andres Cardenas 1:44

or learning while having fun. No, I look. I'm a high-energy guy. I am almost hyperactive, if you will. But I'm a high-energy guy. I'm a very social guy. I'm a talkative guy. And I'm a very loud guy. So I was the guy in school, which the librarian would always ask to shut up or delete. So amusement park all the way.

Ronen Ainbinder 2:07

public enemy number one of the library. So that's why the library, that's why he's been a big man.

Andres Cardenas 2:14

That's an amazing class in my line of business; you can get most of those books in information online. And there we go.

Ronen Ainbinder 2:22

That's true. That's true. Tons of respect for that answer Andres, welcome to the halftime snacks. It's a pleasure to have you host. Finally, some of the goals of the episode are to learn your perspective about a couple of differences in media, and sometimes they are compared to clickbait. I want to learn more about challenges and the mindset you have as an experienced CMO in a big company like mine. I want to also comment on best practices in marketing and branding and maybe talk a little bit about the future of minute media. So what do you think is the one thing that makes a successful media company? And how exactly has that value guided your career?

Andres Cardenas 3:05

That's a good question. I think it all has to do with the positioning of the brand and how the content or what you're putting out aligns with the brand's positioning. Because if you don't do that, there is a short-term success. And there's long-term success. And you were talking about clickbait, right. Yeah, clickbait will provide you short-term success in revenues. Right. But is that a long-term strategy? And I think that's a challenge for everybody on the marketing side or even anybody in the media companies, who you want to be, who you are, what's, what's your brand identity? Why are you doing it and backing that up with your content and your initiatives on a day today? Because I think that's what fuels the team internally and the fans that read or consume your content daily. So it's about being true, being true to your brand, and backing it up?

Ronen Ainbinder 4:02

Was that something that you figured out at the beginning? Or was this something with experience and through realizing how, like, a couple of companies or media companies don't stay true to their brand and their positioning. Then you learn that that's the way that you want to go?

Andres Cardenas 4:18

I learned along the way, and it's a tough decision. Okay, right, because you can't only build a brand and not make money. You intend for everything to be a profitable business so you can continue to grow and expand. And very short-term revenue is required. Now it's how you go about doing it. That is always the question. It's always a challenge, and, and I don't look, I don't judge any brands that do it. I won't. I will say that we have actually engaged in it in the past, and we've changed our ways. Call it enhanced titles or calm. There are so many different names for it. But the problem with that is you don't retain your audience, right you? It's a short-term to short-term thing. But more and more companies, I'm not going to continue to do that because I think it's gotten much better right. But the merchants and in just growth of social media has pushed for this and backed brands and media companies in the corner too, to maybe adopt some of these practices and look, you see even brands, for example, Sports Center, I'm big I'm a big fan of Sports Center, right sports centers, and it's an authoritative voice in, in, in sports you're gonna get true, good sports coverage and news on sports center. If you go to a sports center, Instagram today, it has nothing to do with what you watch and television and could not be further apart. You've got things that don't even connect even vaguely with the sport. And I dare to say that they probably do that to drive, diversify their audience into a younger demographic, and drive those numbers up. Fair Play to them. But for somebody that was a loyal, loyal fan, like me, when I'm consuming them on Instagram, I just don't understand who they are any more who they want to become. And it makes me second guess their intentions.

But on the other hand, you've got the young, right? Gen Z's are millennials looking at sports centers, like this new and young and vibrant fan. And maybe that's their strategy, and if it is more powerful to them. So I got to make my point: clickbait or whatever you want to call it. But I would say pivoting your approach to attracting audiences is a tough call for marketers and sometimes a necessary one. And it depends on what your strategy is and what audience you want to track.

Ronen Ainbinder 7:07

Yeah, I guess it's a tough market out there. And let me explain why I think that first of all, SEO which is words enhancing your positioning and how people find you that is, that is huge like that leaves us no chose me as a content creator, as a newsletter writer and that as a blog writer, around sports, I've realized that that the power of good titles and good wording that relates to the content that you're writing and that you want to convey is valuable when you want to bring attention. We are in the business of attention. , we cover sports, we talk about sports and technology, but at the end of the day, we are in the business of attention. The more attention we get, the higher, the higher the probability that we're going to be able to gather partners or make money out of it or sell advertisement or whatever at the end of the day it's a business of attention I guess that what differentiates and I want to get your opinion on that what differentiates a good media company. Just a clickbait company is the intention and the amount of negativity that they try to spread right because there's this idea that negativity sells easier or sells a lot worse house bad so I guess that it is about how like your integrity how you convey that and the intention and the amount of negativity that you try to convey and sell through your, your, your articles, do you think of something else? Or what do you think about that?

Andres Cardenas 8:43

I completely agree. I think it's the difference between tactics and strategy. If your tactics are to integrate as SEO tools within your content, keywords the way you structure your article. But by all means, that's a must. If you're not doing that, you will die? Now the same thing is you're posting on social media. The same thing is that you're creating a video if you eat if you use tactics to make sure that you're able to secure at least some of the attention of fans and viewers and an audience that's out there. I think it's a must. However, suppose it becomes your strategy, then in my view. In that case,, it's a problem if your strategy is purely 100% writing or creating content or video and everything just for SEO or just so you can get that first click on your Insta or Facebook feed. Or if somebody can see the five seconds of your video, yeah, then you lost your way. That's not a good strategy, right. And I think that people need to make that differentiation within the media business. Some content creators and I think professional content creators know that better than anybody. I think sometimes it's more of a media company that gets a little lost in it. So yeah, tactics versus strategy. And if your strategy is clear, and you're using tactics to deliver it, yes, but if your tactics turned into your strategy, I think you're, you're going downhill, In my opinion.

Ronen Ainbinder 10:19

I think that you're valuable, your words are the valuable address, and this is because since you're the CMO and the leader of one of the biggest, or biggest in the in their kind, media companies, I think that you being able to deliver and communicate these words that you're you're doing can impact a lot in the inside, in the team, in immediate media, and in all the publications that you guys do and to the outside. So you end up conveying that strategy. So I want to double-tap on maybe the strategy you have; what's your mindset towards delivering good content and consistent quality to form and position your brand as you'd like to be to, have it, and develop it?

Andres Cardenas 11:09

Yeah, so we have six, within minutes media. Minute Media we're a media-tech company that owns and operates also six content brands. Each one of those brands is different. And our strategy for each one of those brands is different. The goals are very, very common. We want to produce impactful content that connects with the audience we want to reach right, and we want to do things in a different and engaging base. I mean, those are very broad goals. But all of our content brands have those goals, but we do it in different ways. So if you take the player's Tribune, for instance, the player's Tribune is completely different for 90 minutes, completely different. 90 Min is fan-driven. And when I say driven, we cover football in 11 different languages, but not like old-school media. We cover it with a fan approach and an opinionated manner because that's who we want to reach. We don't want to reach all old guys like me who read five five-page football analyses. We want to reach the 18 to a 35-year-old fan who consumes content in a completely different way and wants to know about the opinions of people like them that think like them to consume football like them that view football like that.

As then you look at the players should be in the players Tribune is longer form. It's not long-form, but it's a longer form. It's giving athletes a platform to tell their stories in their own way. And it's a completely different approach. However, the tactics that we use to attract audiences are also different. So for 90 minutes, we have SEO, right. We rely a lot on social, we rely on social communities as well as the Players Tribune. We rely on our own and operated channels of the Players Tribune. But we also rely on the earned media that we get when other outlets capture that story. And through that story, that not only promotes the story but the promoting, promoting our brand. So it's hard to say there's one size fits all. It depends on what your strategy is, the tactics that you will use, but by all means with our, with our brands, we drive SEO; we don't use clickbait. But yes, of course, we follow the tactics that will allow us to capture fans' attention without being, I'm not even going to mention names. But we know without being one more. And using clickbait, we do want our content to live beyond our channels. So we use syndication as well, right. But at the end of the day, in my opinion, okay, and this is maybe an old-school opinion, and maybe a little bit naive. But your best marketing is your product. And when we talk about our content brands, that's our content. So it doesn't matter what your tactics are. It doesn't matter what your position is externally and how much you make up. If you don't have quality content for that specific audience. It's a short-term strategy, not a long-term strategy. And you may achieve a lot of short-term success, but I doubt you'll grow into an impactful and meaningful player in the business. And that's our approach with our content brands. Right, that is the approach where their content rates, but look, it's it changes every day. It's a very dynamic industry, and I'm learning every day I get well, not every day I go to work. But when I came to work here in my living room, I learned more and more and more about the injury industry. That's that, that's changing day by day.

Ronen Ainbinder 15:14

Yeah, I guess what you're trying to say is that given that we're in the content business, it's hard to build a loyal audience that believes and trusts you if you're not being consistent. And suppose you're not delivering value in quality. I mean by the audience that the reader who read you yesterday will be excited to read you today. If he's not, then he's not a part of your audience, he's just part of someone who was just able to see what your content was one time, but it doesn't mean that it will be there consistently. So I guess that keeping that consistent interest is what drives an engaged and loyal audience at the end of the day. And that's what content brands and content companies are looking for. And I guess that it also applies to you when you're going out and talking to different brands. And, and trying to convince them, maybe not sell them, but convince them to work with you, you got to tell them that you have this engaged and contained loyal audience at the end of the day, because else there, they're not going to be interested or they're going to be like, okay, so if we can get x to reach on a specific post by the amount of money that you're going to be spending on a clickbait ad on Twitter, then we can do it on your own our own. So you have to make that leap between what you can offer and what differentiates you from others. As you mentioned, Tribune is a player's platform, 90-minute ism is a fan-fans platform. So I guess that having that nation, that idea of who you are, and your identity sets up for what a loyal audience will become later for you. And then that will help you grow as you go.

Andres Cardenas 17:02

I think yes, it is about it isn't it will always be about how you can grow your audience so that they will come back and consume your content. However, the challenge that we have today and everyone today is it's almost impossible. It's impossible; it's a very difficult investment for you to create a destination. You can even see if you take a look at your apps. You must have 45 apps on your phone; how many do you actually open daily? There are very few destinations. And when we're talking about the new generation of fans, that would probably put you right. I would put you into that you're consuming content from 1015 2030 different sources. It's either through social media or somebody shares on WhatsApp, whatever that might be. So yes, there's a focus of the building, I would say, an audience, but I would even go further than that, that it's how can your content live, where that fan and that audience is already consuming content. So instead of always trying to pull them, pull them to where they are, and our socials the obvious one, but it's not only social, it's all other touchpoints that they'd have if it's connected TV if it's a streaming platform if it's WhatsApp. If it's new technologies, the launching of TikTok, if it's our content living on the destination sites that you go to, and that might not always help you build your own audience. Still, it will definitely definitely help you build your bet. So that's my two cents.

Ronen Ainbinder 18:47

No, I love it. I love it. That means it means so many things. For me, as a content creator, I see what you mean. And I see what you're saying. Is there any other challenge that you think about of being a CMO in sports?

Andres Cardenas 19:02

Each part of our industry is different. And I started, I started out in pure sports marketing, and I migrated to media. I'll be a little philosophical and maybe existential if you allow me. I think as marketers, we're always thinking externally. How is the brand going to be portrayed externally? How do we position our brand so that people are going to engage with us and x y way? How is the b2b in the industry going to see us? That's what's always top of mind for marketers. But sometimes, we have to go and start with the basics. And it's who we believe we are, who our teams and our own people believe we are right. I think it's that when I say going back to the basics is what is your brand identity, and in my case, we have seven brands. Seven, although you could argue that eight brands, each one needs to have its identity, its purpose, the key messages that express that, and only when you have that was, will your external efforts be authentic and connect in a better way. And I think sometimes people jump that step and go out and try to paint this picture of what a brand is. And suppose you don't have the buy-in and the belief and people rallying behind it internally. In that case, it's very difficult to achieve. So in terms of challenges, I think that's a big challenge. Because as a marketer within my company, I have to be an internal marketer, first and foremost. I have to work with different teams to define what that mission is, what the vision, what the purpose, what do we want to be, who we want to connect with, before going out externally, I think when people jump that, jump that step, it can be a challenge.

Ronen Ainbinder 21:05

Yeah, I guess that relating it to an example, in sports, I guess that it's just like a coach, trying to just put out performances, instead of preparing their team and going back to the training and going back to basics and learning how to pass the ball and how to shoot to then go to the stadium and have a nice performance-driven that it is a product of that training. So I love how you think you're a coach for marketing internally. And I love that it speaks a lot about you and about the companies you're helping develop and grow. I wonder what ideas or principles you think about when you suppose a brand approaches you? I'm going to say Nike approaches you, and they say, okay, so address when I want to work with you; what are the principles that you think about in terms of like, probably like objectives that you think about when you want to develop brands that are already established? Do they already have an identity, such as Nike? And how do you help them go from one to infinity, meaning it's not a company, it's not a brand that it's being developed? From zero to one, it's a brand already existing and already established, and you want to help them? And I'm throwing Nike here, but can it be any other brand that has worked with you? How do you take that from one to infinity?

Andres Cardenas 22:38

Yeah, so when we talk about branded content that these commercial campaigns, I think you separate, you said, there are two types of threats there, let's call it the endemic and well developed sophisticated brands, the Nikes, the younger armors, the bows, and they know exactly who they are, what they want to achieve. And even though they're always challenging to work with because they're so demanding, rightfully so, they will work for you because there's something about your brand, about your content, or about your audience that they want to be a part of. So usually, they already come with a mindset that I don't want to slap my logo right across your, your, your, your video. I want to be a part of it organically, I want. So that is music to a marketer's use. So I would say they know exactly what they want. And they are sophisticated enough to understand that what resonates is when you're a part of something, when you support something, and not when you're owning the whole experience. The other bucket brands that are maybe not as experienced, especially in the sports area, are an idea or established or have a little bit of more traditional views on branding. That is that they could want their car in the middle of a player driving their car and saying, I love this bread. Or then they want to brand everywhere from beginning to end. And I would say those are the ones that we can add so much value to by bringing them closer to what the Nikes of the world are, not because you're right, the Nikes of the world. And it isn't the world. They're there. They're there. They're the peak of sport and advertising and of content creation.

Ronen Ainbinder 24:52

They're the guy that's where everyone wants to be.

Andres Cardenas 24:55

Exactly. So when they come to us, they know exactly what part that they want. A bee because it supports the Portville. The others, sometimes they have no idea. And those are the ones I believe that we can coach to say, look, this is a way you will connect to the fact because if you do it the way you intend to do it, you'll just scare him away. You're scaring away. So I didn't answer your question exactly. But what I was saying is

Ronen Ainbinder 25:25

no, I guess I, I guess that it's more about thinking that those companies, it's not that they're already achieved the one they already achieved that infinity. So they're already there; they're already where they want to be in terms of what they like, knowing exactly who they want to be. Now, taking those other companies from one to infinity. So that's, that's, that's the goal. So as a branding expert, marketing expert, you've seen it, and you've known how to deal with these companies. And I think that sets the difference between developing companies and brands and brands that are already there. So I love the answer. I totally don't think you didn't answer it. I think you just pointed out the right direction of how it's supposed to be. Let's talk a little bit about minute media. Where do you see it evolving in, let's say 510 15 years and dress any takes the future of media, platforms that involve technology, and companies covering the sports market? Where are they going to be headed in the next 510 and 15 years?

Andres Cardenas 26:42

Or 15 years? I don't know. 15 years ago, we didn't even have Facebook, but look at minute media specifically. I believe the future is very bright. We started out 10 years ago; this is our 10th anniversary. I joined five years ago; we were 65 people and now multiply that by almost 10. That's our size increases incredibly, year after year revenue growth, even during a pandemic. And I think that's what's positioned ourselves in such a strong way that the sale is not. The wind is in our sales. And we want to take full advantage of that. And what does that mean? That means to grow, but not only grow what we have today but grow in new verticals, be that sports betting be that connected TV, be that new technology, that we're even developing in the house on how content that's experienced be that video and written in other forms as well. So it's a good time for us. And the sky's the limit. So we're growing our own and operating; we're expanding to markets. We just expanded the player's Tribune. In Japan, in Brazil, other markets are on the way; we are on the tick on the tech front.

We are on board and have many more partners. And so there are so many things going on, that it's an exciting time to be part of our company. Now, where do I see where I see the industry or at least the sports media industry? I'll say first is the competition of content creators and content creators, as you wrote. You athletes, personalities, there are their own brands now. They're their own brands. They produce their own content. They can have their own sites, they can communicate directly via social media. Yeah, their own documentaries; they get their own branded content. Some of them are innovation offices of companies. And I think they're the ones that are going to pose a huge challenge to traditional media companies. And, and I think that's you, we're already seeing that trend, but I think it's only going to grow, it's only going to grow. I think we're well-positioned for that because we especially already work with athletes. Still, our technology enables content businesses, like the player's Tribune, or 90 minute everything, but professional content creators to succeed in their content creation business. Be that through video, be that through content, be that through sites, or, most importantly, growth and audience and monetization. And I think having our own and operated brands working with athletes gives us an advantage of testing and seeing what is next within the publishing technology we need. To develop to be a step ahead and also work as we're already doing with professional content creators, like yourself, Ronen, so let's chat after after after this call, and maybe we can help you out.

Ronen Ainbinder 30:13

No, man, I think you're totally right being that middleman between content creators that are emerging now. I feel like this is because we're living in an age where we're democratizing things. We're democratizing who can publish things and how they can reach their audiences. Now, they don't need to go through a specific newsletter or print newsletter as before and have their voice heard. And right now, you can just open a substack, open a news newsletter or a Twitter account, start posting your thoughts, start posting what you think. People eventually will find you if your content is good. And then these media companies are interested in that because they see that the democratization of content is here. And being there and being in between that, I think that gives you an edge and leverage for the future. To understand this, you mentioned where the industry is heading and what the new and different audiences and generations will be asking for. That's an amazing Andres answer. Undress. I appreciate it. Man, I can't leave without asking you a more personal question. We'll probably need some more personal ideas from a dress man; what is something you dream of doing in the next day, two to 3-4-5 years? Is there anything that you have in mind, something that you dream of doing?

Andres Cardenas 31:40

personally? Yeah, the Grand Slam of tennis.

Ronen Ainbinder 31:44

Are you playing it?

Andres Cardenas 31:48

I can't even beat my neighbor.

Ronen Ainbinder 31:54

I thought we're gonna drop some to catch me at the Grand Slam or something.

Andres Cardenas 31:58

No, I would love to go into all four grand slabs. I would love to go. Okay. So I'm a sportsman. I'm a sports junkie. So I always have a bucket list for sports. And in football, I've done most of them and some other sports, so tennis is the one that that that I and I've been I've been to tennis I was the Wimbledon this year, and I think it would be the Grand Slam of tennis. And I think that's Yeah, that would be maybe very shallow of me. But yeah, that's, that's, that's on my bucket list. And learn and learn how to play the guitar.

Ronen Ainbinder 32:39

I guess that it speaks about your passion and your love for sports. So that's great undress, I also see it, and I love it. I also men want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me and halftime snacking has been such a fun time to learn and ask you about all these insightful topics regarding media and seeing how good of a leader you are by being able to communicate your ideas and your mission, your values. And the way that you see the industry, I feel like it means a lot to be in your team. So if you're fermented media, you should feel very lucky to have a dress on your team. I can't thank you enough. It has been fun, I've been insightful, and I've learned a lot. So I hope that we can do this again in the future and dress. Thanks so much for coming.