Robert Gevertz: Commercializing Sports Content (Full Transcript)
Ronen Ainbinder
Next on the Halftime Snacks is a digital sports consultant from the UK who is the director of First Five Yards. He has experience working with Sky Sports Metro, Talksport, and City Football group from Manchester City. His experience covers everything from sponsorships and media to digital presence and marketing for some of the most relevant sports industry institutions. It is my pleasure to introduce Robert Gevertz!
Robert Gevertz
Hi, how are you? Great introduction.
Ronen Ainbinder
How are you, man?
Robert Gevertz
Very good. Thank you. How are you doing? I hope you're well.
Ronen Ainbinder
I'm doing alright. I appreciate your time. And thank you for coming to the show. I want to start straight away with your story and your background. I want to ask you specifically what has commercializing digital media taught you about human psychology? And why are those lessons important?
Robert Gevertz
I set up my consultancy at the start of this year, having spent the previous five years at Manchester City looking at how they can monetize their digital platforms. And so I think for me, the times we are in now are unfortunately a difficult time for everyone in the sports industry. But very much has thrown up a lot of potential opportunities for sports organizations. Particularly clubs and governing bodies are looking at how they can change and what their product offering is across the digital space to service both their fans and their customers and their sponsors and partners in the space and trying to push innovation. I think that, unfortunately, there's been some different levels of success around that. But it has very much underlined my belief that there is so much that we can do in this space to create new connections between teams and their fans and creating new fans. But also from a kind of the cynical and selfish point of view. There are ways in which sports organizations can be making more money across their digital platforms if they were just to take a step back and think slightly differently. Be it from a strategic point of view, and understand that the value of the content and the access they're sitting on and how they can be generating those new opportunities, I wonder if actually, the market value of quality content went up due to the COVID. And due to the lack of presence and connection between teams and sports organizations and their fans? What do you think about that? I think that the passion for the sport is bigger than ever within the general public. And so I can only speak from the experiences here in the UK, about the desire for people to get back into stadiums and be a part of that communal viewing experience. They want to see games together with their friends and family. And whether that kind of impact on the commercial value is difficult to understand straight away because there are different ways to look at it. If you look at the REITs' value for TV companies and broadcasters, it isn't easy because they're not getting the product they bought in the first place.
A lot of top-level sport is around the atmosphere and the intensity that a full stadium provides. But it has meant that the need to innovate as clubs can potentially offer a huge amount more content and access a bit more of a peek behind the curtain of what goes on with their players behind the scenes in the player's homes, and brought their stories to life a lot more. And then the challenge internally within these organizations is to know what to do with that. I think I felt for a long time that the teams are sitting on a huge amount of content that could be monetized and commercialized, whether that is the kind of existing stuff that they're creating on a day to day basis or even how they can use their archives. How can you create stories from previous events and games to suit a brand's narrative or of a particular time of year? Many things have started to come to the fore a bit more, but there's still room for improvement, for growth in that space. But I do think that on the whole, it is a situation where I think that the value of sport in general is, is increasing even it's been not easy to quantify that commercially. In the short term, I think you've only got a look at what a year of sport 2020 is set to be, to see with all the amazing events that are going on, that will push this real level of kind of elation across sports fans, assuming that life gets back to some semblance of normality that we all want.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, I feel like me as a fan. And I'm sure you can relate this well, especially from, let's say, March to June, where there were absolutely no sports. I felt as a fan that I had withdrawal symptoms, that I needed sports in a way not just as entertainment but also as a way to connect with something that it's not part of myself, something external. And I think that that has maybe commercial side effects. Still, I want to ask you more about the different side effects or commercial effects that COVID has effectively. To fans and sports organizations and what type of challenges can be examples to understand how digital can bring the sport closer to the fan?
Robert Gevertz
Yes. So if you think back to kind of march April time when sports disappeared, all of these teams, all of these broadcasters, were left with nothing to tell people or show people at the time of having any new information. And so what happened was sure, that kind of panic. Let's quickly let that's just kind of throw anything up, and several people did start to try and get kind of nostalgic, because in promoting kind of great events from the past. It gave people a sense of comfort and familiarity that was quite brought joy to many people. Here in the UK, the TV companies did a lot of stuff around, like so in England, they did some big things around euro 96, for football, where the England team did very well. And they did a lot of real screen games in their entirety and watched along and those kinds of things. But some of those things were tended to be kind of one-off events. And I think that was the frustrating thing for me has been on the club's side of things, was seeing that there were opportunities to create regular narratives using that archive. Most teams tended to throw a random game up on their social media channels and say, oh, we're going to watch this great game and watch it with our kind of thing. And that was it. And for me, I would have liked to try and implement a bit more of a narrative and almost a series of that content, to give people a reason to tune in and come back week after week or day after day. So whether that be looking at trying to make things topical, so to tie in, I don't know, we were due to play this team at the weekend, but obviously, the games are going on. This week, we're going to watch the five best games against that team or this player, it's this players birthday, we're going to show their best three goals or whatever find narratives that he gives the viewer a reason to engage with that content regularly. It helps them create a narrative where you can try to integrate a sponsor and a partner brand credibly. Because that was one of the biggest challenges was that all of these teams, all of these organizations would have sponsorship contracts with clients that had assets that they would do to deliver. But the reality was, they weren't going to be in a space to deliver them. So they needed to find new ways to deliver that value or be left with a massive hole in their finances where they'd have to give money back or at least roll it over to next year. What was slightly frustrating is that, from the Premier League's point of view, all they did was these branded wraps at the side of the field that you're now seeing in the NFL and other competitions worldwide. And that's kind of the one thing that kind of concession they seem to do towards brands that well we've made an effort we've done something, but all they're doing is kicking the can down the road. And it could have been a little more, in my opinion anyway, a little more thought behind. Okay, how can we migrate our partners into this digital space and create credible, authentic content for them to partner with that still tells their story and creates really meaningful engagement value? That will ultimately mean that they won't be left in financial holes come season 2021 and beyond.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, 100% Robert, I think the pandemic tested that creativity of each of the sports organizations independently, because for example, I remember that terrible example that a company did was to stream players playing NFL, on Madden, eSports. And I feel like no one watched, and no one enjoyed it. But at the same time, the Olympics started to create content around how were Olympic athletes training from home while still preparing themselves for it. You see how different sports organizations are taking their creativity and into their content to promote their brands or different content, different ways. And I feel like that talks a lot about each one of the organizations' cultures and their objectives and goals, so I think that was interesting. I want to talk a little bit about you and your past, and how do you see the industry? I want to ask you specifically, what is one trend in media and one trend in sponsorships that I know that are your two strengths that appeared in the past to the future, to trends that were supposed to be the next big thing and fail miserably, and you were right there to see it.
Robert Gevertz
So I think two things come to mind. One that may be controversial or not is virtual reality. In the four years, this was the next big thing that was going to lead to a global kind of fan engagement, the fact that you could watch a game while sitting next to your best friend who happens to live in a completely different country and have that shared experience. The challenge with that is, in my view, anyway, the reality is that the hardware and that you're wearing a big heavy headset, it's just not conducive to long-form content. But also you can't, how do you have a drink or something to eat, because you can't find it, because your it blocks your eyes with whatever it is that you're watching on the screen. And so I think there are some simple challenges around that, that were very difficult. And actually, I feel that the opportunity is much more around augmented reality. I'm working with interesting companies that are developing some fascinating use cases in sports that takes real-time data and overlays it across the live content, whether using a smartphone or a tablet or indeed across smart glasses that are now coming into the marketplace. So they've got some use cases, whether in a stadium for your kind of premium-level customers. Where for the guys that are paying 500-1,000 a ticket, well, you can provide a super-premium experience by giving them a pair of smart glasses to have a hugely enhanced experience within the stadium.
But in the same way, you could have a smartphone application that's in a similar state whereby you're sitting on your couch, watching a game on TV, but you can hold your phone up in front of you. And it will be able to kind of overlay those real timepieces of data, whether it's stats or positional play or whatever it may be, and give you an enhanced experience at home, which clubs wanted to deliver to their fans because they're not in the stadiums at the moment. For me, VR was the one that missed, but AR is one that I think has much more of an opportunity. And the other one is just around. It's particularly football, but no one has nailed the in-stadium, matchday app proposition. I saw a lot of these at the time. I think the challenge around that is that there's been a lot of success around them in America. And the nature of the sport, be it the NFL, NBA, baseball NHL is that there are so many natural breaks in a game where the fans want or need that extra piece of entertainment or information or have the time anyway to be on their phone and doing something. And whether it be ordering some food, ordering some merchandise, finding out more information, seeing replays, whatever it is, and providing that personalized experience. The reality is that football doesn't operate in the same kind of mechanic. All you're looking for is how you take many of those factors and shoehorn them into a 15-minute halftime break. Most people are lining up to go to the bathroom anyway or get another drink at the kiosk. And so they don't they're not looking for any more information. So that's been one of the big fails for me is just around. Digital matchday experience, I don't think anybody has or will be able to nail in the short term.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, I never thought about it. The different structure of the game could be adaptable to different technologies, but not to others that may be adaptable to football or baseball, as you mentioned. So it's interesting to think about how sports approach the game based on the structure of the game, either if it's how much time they have, independently of the game, how much time before people are in the stadium, because there's this tradition in the US, for football and baseball games to tailgate fans come to the stadium, and they have their food, have a meal, have some drinks before the game two or three hours before the game. I feel like that the way the fans are acting or how the game is structured asks for different technologies that might not work in one sport. Rather than in others, which is interesting, Robert, I appreciate that answer. And I want to also learn from your experience, I mean, you worked at sky sports, ManCity you work in tech and sport, what are some specific knowledge that you learned? What are some specific problems that those companies have, and you can only learn in those companies that they're unique responsibilities or unique problems? Tell us a little bit about Robert.
Robert Gevertz
So I think with Manchester City, in particular, that's part of this wider City Football group. So they have now, I think it's 12 teams worldwide, many clubs under their umbrella. And so that as a business is a very interesting proposition that is such a global business, but with some very localized situations and issues that need to be kind of understood. So particularly from a marketing point of view, we saw many challenges or at least some situations that occurred that maybe don't occur in most other sports organizations. An example is just around the nature of how audiences are very different in different parts of the world, what they like and what they don't like, and the need to be local while still being global. So we had a situation where the team was successful by one, the Manchester City one the Premier League, and one of their main partners was a telecoms company called Etisalat based out in the Middle East. And they made a celebrator e video, including the players, that was very cheesy production and its tone. It almost had a kind of Bollywood kind of feel to the content. When released on the club channels, loads of people in Western Europe were very critical of it.
How could the club do this? How could they allow this to happen? It's terrible. Why would the players do this? But from the client's point of view, and for their particular audience, it was perfect because it fit what they needed. It fit with the kind of tone of voice that was very successful in that marketplace to that audience. So I think it's very important to understand that you cannot be truly global without really knowing the differences in cultures and how you should be communicating to those different audiences. It was a very valuable lesson. I think there's been a few examples. I've recently seen that Ronaldo put some content out with an Asian company called Shopee. And that was a similar kind in nature, very simple, very cheesy, and simple execution. That got banned by Europe, but it wasn't for a European audience; it aimed at an Asian audience that loved it. That's one thing that people have to be aware of is, remember kind of who you're speaking to them, while you're speaking to them.
Ronen Ainbinder
What do you think it's more important to be local or to be global?
Robert Gevertz
I think the importance is to be local but on a global basis. So if you can, you need to be local, but in 25 different places. Each organization will have particular target areas that they want to cover and reach and grow their audiences. Many people are trying to put stock into three main regions where you will have the US because of the commercial potential. And then China and thirdly, India, just because of the sheer volume of the audience. If you are speaking to China and India, you're speaking to two and a half billion people at the end of the day. Then it becomes a numbers game that if you can engage with 1%, or point 1% of that audience, that's a big audience that you can then start to set off from there, or, or, or at least developed into a wider fan base. So the needs to be to have specialists in those spaces, but then have a general overview of what you want to do globally. I think it's quite important.
Ronen Ainbinder
I wonder how you would approach a three-step process moving from local to global. The first step is to start creating content in the language where you're trying to reach then also, maybe opening speech coffees in an area and getting a group of marketers that promote the brand and promote the content in the area. And maybe also creating or putting merch in the area and starting to sell it? How would you approach going from a local standpoint to a global standard?
Robert Gevertz
I think the steps that you put out are quite good. I would change because I don't think in the early stages, it's wise to necessarily open up your own office unless you have people working in that office from that environment, if you were to send guys. For example, from London to open an office in Shanghai, it's not going to work because you're not going to know the culture, you're not going to understand the types of content that work the way that that audience engages with platforms. And so I would recommend working with eight local agencies on the ground, first of all, to understand that or at least if you're going to go all out, then bring in people from that local area that are well qualified and well connected, to help push your story. That's one of the things that ManCity did very well. In my time there, they opened an office in China. Still, they brought in the former head of Nike China to run their office and had other commercial people from that space and worked in conjunction with local agencies in developing that to get a foothold in that space. So it needs to be a combination of things. But you're right that this need, ideally, to regionalize your content a little bit if you can. There are some agencies out there that work on that, whether it is Seven League, whether it is a Sandbar. There's all manner of agencies out there offering those kinds of services, where they will run social media and digital channels in foreign languages and have specific content producers and translators who are doing that kind of stuff. And so yeah, I think it's about leaning on those resources to build up your understanding and awareness of those marketplaces. And then obviously, it becomes a more financially viable proposition to set up your own office in those territories once you've done the groundwork with the experts in that space.
Ronen Ainbinder
When is the moment when a team or sports organization should consider going global? For example, let's say club Chivas or Club Pachuca, from Mexico, they have a very strong local presence. The whole country knows them, and also in probably Latin America, they're known, but no one has heard about them in Europe, the US, Asia. No one knows about it. So when would you recommend the team to consider going global after having such a strong local presence?
Robert Gevertz
It is pretty much always going to be driven by players. So it's either if you bring in players from a foreign country, you're naturally going to bring an audience with them. Or if they were to sell a player to Europe, try and grab some of that European audience. So it becomes a kind of almost a partnership model with that other clubs. So if they were to sell a player to Spain, then try and create some pathway to share that because obviously, the Spanish club will want to try and access all the historic fans that player will have. And if you can leverage that relationship to find the benefits to the initial club as well. That's it. But ultimately, it's no secret that the fan base in a particular country will skyrocket if you if a team buys a big name player from that country, a coach, or a just a personality involved in that. The other thing may be to try and capitalize on that if your players succeed on the international stage. In a major tournament, like a World Cup, you could try and see if there are any spikes in interest and awareness from that. And jump on that, if you're just generally, your organization's profile is raised due to their success. But all of that is driven by the players. They are the number one asset that any sports organization has.
Ronen Ainbinder
That's awesome. Since we're running out of time, I don't want to leave this interview without asking you a personal question, Robert. If you could write a book about a topic related to sports, probably what you're most passionate about what you love what you could eat, sleep and brief about sports, what would it be about and why?
Robert Gevertz
So I've got two answers. One is kind of the professional answer in the sense that the reason why I set up my consultancy was that I do believe there are a huge amount of opportunities for sports organizations to monetize their digital platforms better. So there is a very much an educational job that can be done by helping people understand the value of content and access that they're already sitting on and that they could be monetizing in various ways without spending the huge amount of money themselves necessarily. So that's the kind of boring business answer. When I was a kid, and as a sports fan, I was always interested in, like, football boots and kit and the culture around the clothing of sport. When I was a kid, my first job was in a sport in a shop selling football boots and sports equipment. It was the shop where David Beckham bought his first-ever pair of boots. And so one year, when they released a pair of Adidas predators, he bought the first pair of boots in the store like the kind of PR launch. So something around that has always been a subject that's always fascinated me, I had friends of mine when I was a kid, whose family owned an amazing store in the central runner political Carnaby Street, that was called soccer scene. People knew it as being the place to go and get any kit. It seems to be from anywhere in the world in the late 80s, early 90s. So I vividly remember going to my parents one year to buy a kind of late 80s, IX full strip, because I love the design. Anything around that kind of area, the history of kit design, has always been a passion point. And I love what guys like when the magazine is doing in that space. There are guys like the sports locker; some kinds of Instagram handles are pushing this kid culture again. And I think that Nike, in particular, really nailed elements of that with their kids over recent years. I love what it does or doing with Arsenal at the moment with their kits, and seeing some of these kinds of heritage designs come in with a modern flavor is interesting to me. I want to dive into more and more that kind of kit culture and with boots and shirts, jerseys, and all that kind of stuff.
Ronen Ainbinder
Hey, Robert, go for it. I think it would be super interesting. I would read it; I would share it. You could inspire so many other young fans about it because they share the same passion as you, and I think that's a legendary way of wrapping up today's conversation. I want to thank you for coming to the halftime snacks. It was a pleasure to host you. The conversation was super interesting, super insightful. And I appreciate your time. I hope we can meet up and talk about sports and clothing and brands and sponsorships and everything in the future. Not for now, because we're locked! But thank you for coming to have some snacks, Robert.
Robert Gevertz
Perfect. Thank you very much. I very enjoyed it. Thank you.
Transcribed by Otter.