Uri Levy: Being a Football Journalist in the Middle East (Transcript)
Ronen Ainbinder
Today, joining us for the Halftime Snacks is a Middle Eastern football expert and a sports journalist from Israel.
This man has experience working with Israeli media channels such as Sport5, the Jerusalem Post, Walla news, Calcalist, Haaretz, Kan, and many more.
Additionally, he covered the World Cup in Russia, The Asian Cup in the United Arab Emirates, and the African Cup of Nations in Egypt.
He's the founder and chief editor of BabaGol. This football content brand focuses on Asian, Middle Eastern, African, and Latin American football.
So, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce Uri Levy!
Uri Levy
Hey Ronen, how are you, man? Thank you for this lovely introduction.
Ronen Ainbinder
I'm doing alright, Uri. Thank you for accepting my invitation to the halftime snacks. I want to start off right away by asking you about the Israeli fan. How would you define in one sentence the character of an Israeli fanatic of football?
Uri Levy
The Israeli fan, I would say he's a very nostalgic creature. Because football in Israel is very much connected to political and social, economic identifications, football identities arrived here at the beginning of the 20th century connected with the British Mandate. The relationship between Jews and Arabs, Ashkenazi Jews (Jews coming from Europe) Mizrachi Jews (Jews from the Arab countries from North Africa from the Middle East). And basically, despite nowadays, Israeli football is a modern scenario with renovation, renovated stadiums and TV rights deals and betting companies deals like everywhere else globally, the Israeli fan is very much still attached and connected to the essence in the definition of his clubs. Whether it's a Hapoel, which is more oriented with left-wing, Ashkenazi Jews before the Israeli country was founded. Or Beitar Jerusalem, famous for being the only team in the league, is not to fill with Muslim and Arab players. Or Maccabi Tel Aviv, which is also symbolizing some kind of a rich and successful upper-middle-class. Each club has its own identity. Today, comparing them to the Premier League fans, there won't be a big difference in education or economic, social status, but for the story for the vibe for the atmosphere and for the connectivity and belonging. The Israeli football fan has the tradition, the history, the culture, and memories. This is why it's so nostalgic about what was before the war before the country was founded. It's very important here.
Ronen Ainbinder
That's fascinating. We I'm sure we're gonna talk a little bit more about that later. But I want to ask you about yourself. I want to know your story. And of course, I want to know the story of BabaGol. How did you even come up with it? And how is it mainly different from all the like traditional sports media companies?
Uri Levy
My story with BabaGol is basically the story of my life. In a way, I always liked football. As a kid, I liked to draw comics, but the first match that my uncle took me here in Jerusalem to see Hapoel Jerusalem against the B'nei Yehuda. We lost. I think it was 7-1 in the Teddy Stadium in Jerusalem. From the moment that I entered the stadium with all the gray concrete of the stand and I saw this green, beautiful, clean, shining surface. I can never forget it, and since then, football became my life. And I really looked for my way first as a player. I wasn't too serious about my team as a kid. And then the army came. When I first released, I joined the sports channel as an assisting producer for the five-plus. I literally watched any football game but really all the World Cups, the Euros, Africa Cup of Nations, Asian, Asian Cup, whatever. I watched everything, Copa America Of course, really some cool stuff, but then I decided it was too early for me to stay in one place. I took my things, and I went to Argentina. I lived in Argentina for nearly a year and a half, and there I was really connected. I got really connected to the people and to the culture of football. I felt at home in Argentina. I felt at home immediately because it's a place that everyone got a football team. It doesn't matter if it's the professor or the rich man or the bus driver or the old lady that makes empanadas. Everyone got his own football team and, for me, as a young kid, renting a small apartment near the stadium of Atlanta. I started to discover football in Argentina and the fans' culture and the connection to the identities. So in Argentina, it's different. I would say reach in manners of yours and historical stories about the club's not only about a political context, of course, but there is also politics and everything. But this is what I discovered as a kid. When I came back, I didn't return to the industry of media. I was a cook for a few years, but I was writing, and then the 2014 World Cup started. A few newspapers knew that I write well because I used to write a little bit about sport five back when I was working there. They said, maybe write something about Argentina, which you you've been living. Maybe shed some light on the football for a little bit of a local view. I wrote one piece, and it got really popular. It was the beginning of Facebook and football media on social media, and people really liked it. And then I started to write more and more and more than my girlfriend told me like, okay, that's nice. Still, not all your fellow Facebook friends want to hear about a Palestinian Paraguayan player representing a Palestine national team, for example. Take it easy on Facebook! Open a small stage for yourself to write about. And then I sat, and I started to read and said, I need a stage I need like a website. And then, I built a simple blog with Blogger. You know, I was thinking about names, and I came up with BabaGol, and I felt really good. I start writing like crazy about everything that I find interesting. In the first year at university studying Middle Eastern Studies in Latin American Studies, I was completely lost in the manners of the university. I mean, I like history, I always liked it. And of course, languages is something important that I also like, and I have a good sense of it. I couldn't find myself in university. I understood that basically for football, I can speak about many other topics starting from this piece about Argentina before the World Cup. And of course, the football that was interesting for me, the Middle Eastern football, but everything that's happening around me. whether it will be in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, all of the Middle East, North Africa, I'm coming from a mixed family. My grandfather is an Arab, so I speak Arabic. AI looked for my edge or so in the industry, I won't lie, I understood that nobody's writing about our football. As a student for Middle Eastern Studies, it's a good chance to connect. The moment I started to connect football with some deeper and wider topics in I started to offer it to professors in the universities. It took me a while. But eventually, I found the two professors that they let me write about football. Seize that moment. It was at the beginning of the second year. I didn't write anything to the university that is not related to football for almost two years. In any topic, no matter what, I found its implication in football, and I wrote about it no matter what, no matter which course no matter nothing. Then you know posting the blog became essays for school, essays for school became posting the blog. Then it became articles that start to serving first to call colleagues later to audits. I start to write for the Arabic deed, a very big website in the Arab world. A weekly column on our football, and Middle Eastern football, including Israeli football, it's part of my vision. And Babagol also grew, new writers joined me, and I started to edit people. Also, editors joined me. We created this crew of people who like to play with texts and make them compelling and make them interesting, but it was important for me that it won't be in very high-end English. I know my audience Israeli people are people. We used to write a lot about Indian people. So a lot of people from India follow us. So I like to keep it like our slogan. We like to keep it real. We don't want to be intimidated when you read an article, BabaGol. We don't believe that you must use the highest language to speak about deep or complicated topics. You need to find the right words and to explain simply to keep the narrative strong. This is what we do. We keep it real. And it grew. And you know, I, as you said, I covered World Cups in Africa Cup of Nations and Asian Cup. I've been all over the region, all over the Middle East, and doing collaborations with the biggest companies in the world from COPPA 90, Bleacher Report, D for football of The Athletic. BabaGol now, of course, it's also website and social media platforms that create content for their followers' pleasure. But we also content brand that we do a podcast in Hebrew for Kan, which is the Israeli public broadcast Corporation IPBC. We work with sports five, I24 News. All the majors, they look for what they can learn from football. What is the bigger picture of football that you can understand from the game? We are really becoming like the first stop. What do you start to understand why something comes to us? For example, these days, there is a serious conflict in Nagorno Karabakh between Azerbaijan in Romania. One of our main senior writers, Yossi Medina, wrote about this conflict in the reflection of football, which is very strong and interesting. They also for many people in Israel, because Israel is involved there, like many other countries, Turkey and everything. But a fascinating piece that made huge waves around the world was translated to German, it translates to Armenian. And journalists from all over the world are interviewing Yossi. We are becoming some kind of authority for football in the Middle East or football, not in conventional places, not London or Berlin or Paris. However, we can happily write about players from Africa, the Middle East, Latin America playing the biggest leagues. But we would like to show them, you know, identity, they origin there, their everything. So this sums up what we do. We keep it real.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, that's great, Uri! You found your edge because you could intersect your interests, which were kind of football, and maybe writing was kind of like an interest for you and history. And this intersection combined with the languages you speak and the things you know are kind of like the ones that give you your edge. I'm almost certain I cannot find anyone else like you who writes about the things you do, the way you do it, and the passion you do. And I think that it is easy to see. And that's fantastic. I appreciate the great answer that you just gave us. And I want to ask you now a little bit about you know, sports culture in Israel and the Middle East. How is it different from the rest of the world? What are the things that fans value there? I mean, you mentioned it a little bit in the beginning, but what are the things that fans, they value differently from the rest of the world? What are your thoughts about it?
Uri Levy
Well, I think football nowadays, you can map the football world and say there are countries with a certain football, intellect. It's a way of leaving the game of thinking about taking the game and making it part of your cultural part of your life, in every country. They are different because, within the intellect and a language, you have dialects. The dialect of football in the UK is not a dialect of football in Saudi Arabia. The dialect of football in Saudi Arabia is not even the dialect of football in Israel. It's maybe more close. It may be more familiar. In the Middle East, in general, Israel is a region that, on the one hand, is full of conflicts and wars, segregations, and definitions in politics and wars and civil wars. It's part of our existence in this area. Similarly, it's the region with the most interesting reach, inviting cultures with the best food, hot weather, great nature, and combining people for many places (from North Africa and from the east and Europe and everything). So I think for us, football is an escape in a way for people in Latin America to escape, but it's a different escape. It is an escape from if we talk about the lower classes or poor people, so it escapes from day by day, economic and life struggle. But here we escape from the things that put us apart, the things that tell us you need to fear. Football is giving us hope, power, a sense of belonging, and this is something that it's thorough. if we take it from Morocco until Iran (including Israel in the middle), these places' political and social history ignited into an integral part of the Football League. It's true all over. It's true for Egypt. It's true for Lebanon, Of course, a country with so many types of populations that each one got a football team in the capital city. Every match day, you have five derbies from the capital city, for Saudi is a huge country with great importance to the Arab world and the Sunni world. In the four big teams, there are probably among the biggest clubs in Asia and the Lalani. Etihad, of course. I think, for us, football is an escape football, is a definition. Football is an identity, but not normally, I would say cliche, but it's not a cliche, because it's reality. But it's not like football for the people. Because we work very hard all day. Yeah, we work very hard all day. But it's also for us. Let's not think about war, let's not think about politics. Let's think, let's focus on the game. The game is now as anyone who will attend games in Israel, or whenever in the region. Hopefully, when fans are back at the stadiums, they could feel it and live it. Who knows? Maybe their World Cup in 2022 will be with fans and everything, and people can experience this themselves.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, well, I think that the World Cup is actually coming up in the United Arab Emirates. I think that's going to be one of the characteristics that we're going to see shining from that area. And that culture, as you mentioned, the character of the Middle Eastern fan is as different from the rest of the world. I think that's food for thought. I think we have to maybe reflect on different kinds of cultures and learning from other cultures is also it's also great. I want to ask you about your experience as a Middle Eastern journalist. What have been some of the unique problems you had to face? What you think is unique that you had to solve or responsibilities unique to a Middle Eastern journalist as yourself, Uri?
Uri Levy
Yeah. So I mean, I live in Israel. I also have an Israeli accent when I speak in English. It's not easy what I'm doing. Because it's not easy being an Israeli journalist in the Middle East. It's sometimes not easy to be an Israeli journalist in the world. Every time I speak with colleagues or interview fans, or players, or coaches or clubs, officials, FA officials, eventually, I speak their language Arabic. Yeah, most of the time or speak English if they prefer or French if they prefer or Spanish or whatever. Before everything else. I speak football. When you are a hundred percent focused on football and then opening and understanding the things around it, it doesn't matter. Because if you are a professional and know your field, you know what you need to do. You know all these, eventually all these fears, or these huge walls of concrete and fears that are falling apart, and eventually, you are a journalist. So some people may be afraid to speak with you for a quote in their own name, and you should respect it. Some people will be disappointed that to discover that you are not a Palestinian from Jerusalem, you are a Jewish person from Jerusalem or an Israeli. Depends on how you present yourself for how they want to look at you. I stopped playing this game of nationalities because I understood this will hurt me in my work. I'm a citizen of football. From the Middle East, I speak Arabic. I speak Hebrew, speak English, and speak any language you want to communicate in, but I focus on football. And for football, we can discuss whatever, of course, unpleasant experiences with people, news outlets like Al Jazeera or other networks that they made fun of my Arabic or me. Sometimes, it was something like that, but it's okay. It's part of the game. I'm a weird guy at the end of the day that really believe in what you do. And I'm not afraid of a little bit of threatens on the internet or curses on the internet. The positive feedback and the connections I have in almost every country in the region are much more important for me than any other thing. And you know, I'm a big believer in the Middle East in football. So I don't let the negative that is in this field to get on me. I see when I work, I don't see only the now what's happening now right now. I'm looking 20 years forward. I look in the future of this place, my kids' future, the future of my neighbors, kids of my brothers, my Egyptian neighbors, or no matter what. I might be a little bit anxious or neurotic about the company and the bank and my things and my stuff in my daily life. But when I'm on the field, when I'm going. For example, for the African Cup of Nations last summer, I forget from all of my troubles in Egypt that I'm fully connected to the place I am. And I enjoy working, I enjoy taking photos, interviewing people, giving people the stage to tell their stories, and telling them to Israeli people and Western people like in the UK or US. So whichever client we work for in that certain tournament, I had a dream to be a footballer. It never came out. But my second dream was to be a football journalist to cover the World Cup. I did it before I was 30. And then I had two dreams to cover the Asian Cup and Africa Cup of Nations. I did it also by 31. So right now, I'm missing only the Copa America, and I'm good to go. That's it. I do football, but I enjoyed the work. Basically, I think that my colleagues and my friends and the fans and the people I interview right about in the Middle East appreciate where I come from.
Ronen Ainbinder
Yeah, Uri, that's a great place to wrap the last conversation. Thank you for your time for your insights, for your analysis, and of course, your perspective on things. I think they're one of a kind and you know, I hope maybe we can meet up and talk more about football in the future. But for now, thank you for snacking with me, Uri.
Uri Levy
Thank you, Ronen. It was a pleasure. When you are here. Let me know. And we'll go to a match together in Jerusalem, hopefully.
Transcribed by Otter.